Well said Col.

Just saw the TV highlights of the game - Wigan's first try was as good as it gets. Beautiful team try.

He was a bit unlucky with the first try as Smithies was called offside by the ref and left a gap.

Yes, I saw that on rewatching it yesterday. I do feel he could have been less passive though. The second one was wholly his fault as he didn't number up and bit in to the outside man leaving a huge gap.

That said, he definitely tried harder on Saturday and ran with more purpose. I think I was a little guilty of being negative towards him after recent displays. I still think he would benefit from some time out though as he tends to switch on and off a little too easily.

I wonder if he was told about holding the line and not shooting out looking to put shots on. He has looked passive ever since the Wakey away game and in that game and ones before, I’d noticed him flying out of the line hunting for players but that seems to have been shelved. He looks to have gone from one extreme to the other but I think it all ties in with your point about a rest. I think he needs a couple of weeks out when the chance arises, just to freshen him up. Every player hits a dip at some point and I think he’ll be fine in the long run.

Quite possibly NK.

As I've said previously I do believe there's a player in there but when you see the impact Dupree had in that game or how Havard is making himself into one of the best in the league, both at a similar age, it does leave me feeling a little frustrated with him. He has the tools. He just doesn't seem to be getting the best out of them. I think he should be rested this week as we're playing a team with one eye on the final next week and with Dupree's addition we have enough up front not to miss him. Bring in Hill or Havard, if fit, and we're good in the front row. Alternatively, play KPP at prop and bring Nsemba/Shorrocks into the back row.

Do it this week and he'll get a 2 to 3 week break.

Smithies needed to give a penalty away. Staying back opened up the gap which Byrne couldn’t fill.

You're probably right in hindsight Zig, but then hindsight is always right. He'd have copped plenty of stick if he'd deliberately given a penalty away as we would never have known that it actually saved a try.

I'm guessing he believed the gap would be covered as perhaps it might have been had Byrne been less passive.

In the end, there's a shared responsibility there though. Neither got it right.

I would always have given the penalty away if I was defending in my own 10m.

Give Hill more minutes now we have Dupree. I’d rather invest in his development than Byrne’s who has never shown any form of dominance of a number of games in his career. He should be the next out of the door like Partington was.

Exactly. It is the penalty that Faz gave away that annoyed me.

Talking of props running with vigour, I’m just watching Harvie Makin playing for Barrow and my word, he knows how to smash a ball up! Not the biggest but he’s causing all sorts of problems. Not seen a great deal of him before.

Played at Judes in the same team as Junior. This Judes team was almost unbeatable, I think they lost less than five games from the team being 7 to 16. Harvey has a good engine, not the biggest as you say. His dad Craig played at Widnes back in the 90's.

Aka Andy Platt.

I personally don’t get the clamour to move Liam Byrne on. I think he is doing a solid job and went well on the weekend.

His development hasn’t moved on as much as I expected this year but let’s not forget he is still very young in Prop terms and also had a vastly reduced off season due to his involvement in the World Cup.

If we were to let him go at this stage I’m certain we would come to regret it in a couple of seasons time.

KPP talked about how his lack of preseason because of the World Cup really affected his form, and his 8 week injury allowed him to get into really good shape.

As Jonh says it could be the same for Byrne.

If we let him go pretty much every super league team would be after him given the lack of English props going.

Keep him and keep developing him IMO. He’s going to be at least our 4th prop next year so not under as much pressure.

I went watching the TAG rugby after the Leigh game, some of the squad players were doing some training with Leuluai on the track, Hill was there and he looks a similar build to Partington, I wouldn't be moving Byrne on in the hope that Hill breaks through next season.

Completely agree with this. It would be foolish to let Byrne go, especially after the season he had last year. I've been really disappointed with his performances this year but it doesn't mean I'd get rid. He's only 23/24 so still plenty time to turn it around. If he doesn't kick on next year then maybe a move away maybe the best for him but we'll see.
He's had a lot of pressure on his shoulders this season due to Cooper being injured alongside Havard and Ellis dropping in and out of the side. A full preseason and playing in a better pack next year will help him massively.

The penalty when he gave Hardaker a slap on the head?
Think he retaliated to Hardaker grabbing his b@lls or, at least, giving them a sneaky flick.

Still not good enough.

Absolutely correct. He won't be costing the earth and he's having his first real blip, in a young career, playing in possibly the toughest position on the field for younger players. If you're going to bring young prop forwards through and support them through the ups and downs, around the ages of 20-24, you then want to reap the benefits of them coming in to their prime. The only thing Byrne should not be IMO is a guaranteed starter but his place in the squad should be safe. The squad hasn't been strong enough to push him for his place but it should be going forward and he will need to produce the goods to get a place in the 17.

with the whistle.

What's not good enough is that any type of biff has been taken out of the game. Wigan Vs Leigh, there should be some tension and rough play.

It’s not good enough because it was extremely unprofessional and lead to a try.

As captain he needed to do better in that situation.

This isn’t park rugby on a Saturday afternoon in front of 20 blokes and a couple of dogs.

This is the elite level of the sport and he broke the rules of the game (regardless of what yours or my personal feelings are about them) in a blatant way, even worse it was late in the tackle count I believe.

Luckily it is an isolated incident and seems very out of character for a usually very level headed player.

Way too early to be talking about letting him go. He just needs taking out of the firing line for a couple of weeks to recharge and I reckon we'll start seeing the best of him. We've been saying how we've been suffering for having had too much disruption to the pack this season; well he's probably suffered more than most as he's been one of the few constants. Put him in with Havard, Ellis and Dupree after a bit of a rest and I'm sure he'll come good.

He’s much bigger than Oli.