oh ok, so the next time a player leaves you have a ready made argument? But of course, he won't give the real reason, cause a "deal has been done"...

Its a shame because two of the best forwards in SL were available mid season in Manu and Ellis. Our pack looks shockingly lightweight this year. Mossop, Prescott, Luauaki, Flower, Dudson? Avearge SL players at best. In the past two years weve lost Fielden, Coley, Lima, Hock and Hoffman and havent found adequate replacemants, a lot of hope will be put on Taylor, lets hope he is up to it!!

Maybe, but what is very strange is that every player I know who has played under Wane has spoken highly of him (even those who have left the club).

Presume what you like.

"Every player I know" key phrase in the sentence.

For those saying "you don't know what happened" - FFS, Wane is his boss, as is IL. You do as you're told in the workplace. Unless they've made some totally unreasonable demand such as "do 5 laps, 50 burpees and eat your dog", he has NO excuse for this behaviour.

If he doesn't get on with Wane or his methods he needs to grow up and realise you don't always get on with colleagues, but you still make sure you do your job. If it's down to a bigger bust-up he needs to grow up, get over it and learn how to repair relationships. If it's over losing the No.12 shirt he needs to grow up and realise the club won't sit around waiting for him to decide if or when he's going to Australia. If it's down to his social life and outside influences he simply needs to grow up. His short RL career will be ending in a few years and he's fast becoming another "could have".

Normally I wouldn't be bothered and say it's his life and just a job at the end of the day, and I'd wish him well, but the time, faith and money Wigan have invested in him deserves more.

For me he's acting like a spoilt brat. He's always come across as thinking he's top dog and now he's shown his true character for all to see. What a shame, he could have been so much more.

Until someone has the balls to spill what they "know", Hock has just gone into the "sadly gone but not fondly remembered" folder.

What if the issue wasn't work related?

It will be interesting to see how Farrell/Tuson handle the extra responsibility. I think both have looked better when they've played long periods so this is a perfect opportunity to showcase their talents and claim spots for themselves (especially Tuson who is out of contract this year I believe). If the rumours (sorry the dreaded r word again) of HH going to NZ at the end of the year are true then what was our strongest position imo will look very thin.

Any chance of you actually PMing what you are hinting at to give us all a more informed view of what's (allegedly) gone on?

Saints Pack: Puletua,Perry,Laffranchi,Louie,Walmsley,Clough
Warrington Pack: Morley,Hill,Waterhouse,Harrison,Carvell
Leeds: Bailey,Peacock,Liuluai(sp),Griffin

Wigan going to strugle this year?

If it's completely non-work related and didn't affect his job in the slightest then there shouldn't be a problem. Bearing in mind his job involves representing the Wigan club both in and out of work, looking after himself physically, avoiding certain substances and generally not bringing himself or the club into disrepute.

And there do seem to be work issues at play, regardless.

PM me what you think has happened and if I agree I'll take it all back and support you without disclosing it. At the moment I'm pretty disgusted with him.

Well, you don't mess with your Bosses wife / daughter / son either.