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| Kevi Iro
I think he may have misplaced his list.
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| Quote ="Yed"Phil Ford'"
Thats his starter for ten.
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| My list is on the way...........lol, I concede the point about haunting us, however the amount of home grown players who we have not signed is long, some we signed later on in their careers and some who I think would of been great players in a good Wigan team.
I,am not having a go at Wigan here, the point I,am trying to make is that Wigan did not show Chris Ashton and a host of other players any loyalty when it came to contracts, Its so hard to look at young players and know for sure they are going to make it, and clubs and the players will make mistakes, but it bugs me that the post is all about what a wan... Ashton is and he was shi... anyway. We never saw his full potential at Wigan because in my opinion he was allowed to leave just as he was getting going. No one will ever know for sure how he would of turned out, but the slating of him is wrong.
If Sam got an offer and left, would his defence and attuitude be a load of shi.. a week later on here? I suspect so !!
If he had not scored that try on Saturday we would not be talking about him, I loved watching JR, Faz, Connolly, Paul etc playing RU knowing that they started in RL and showing the ra ra,s the way to go.
These for me were missed and then signed and some who if they played or stayed at Wigan would have been great players for us, these are Wigan Lads! I,ve not started with young lads who we had first then let go.
Now my list starting oldest to latest :- Andy greg, Mike Greg, Andy platt, Malcom Alker, Longy, Chris Joint, Kev Brown ( which a load on here would like to re-sign ) Shaun Ainscough, Mike Foreshaw, Terry Newton, Paul Johnson, Shaun Briscoe, etc
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| Not really one for putting specific figures on here, but seeing as it has already been mentioned, I feel okay about it.
I was told in a relatively small public forum by a player who knows his family and was asked his advice about the offer from RU. The player stated he was on £12k at Wigan and was being offered five times that figure. His advice was; go for it. How many opportunities present themselves in life where you can increase your salary five-fold? What would the reaction have been by Wigan fans that a teenager was being paid £60k? I would imagine most would find it quite incredulous.
I don't recall, from the few games I saw him play, that his defence was poor, but I don't recall it being good either. Wingers with iffy defence are exposed mercilessly, see Kevin Penny for reference.
Fair play to him I say, make as much money you can in a pretty short working career.
It does, again, raise the point of amending the salary cap for Academy produced talent. I have stated previously that these players should have their salaries off-set from the cap by a sliding scale, ie: 75% for their first year as part of the full time squad, 50% for the second year, etc. Or 50 games, then, 75 and so-on.
At the time when the game was losing the likes of Robinson, I think the RFL had to be quite pragmatic and relay the fact the game could not compete with the salaries, especially those part-funded by the RFU. You also have to bear in mind these players would be the top earners in the game, which leads to a situation of where you decide to draw the line.
It is pretty unnerving that RU are pinpointing Academy players such as Thornley, who I believe we can try to retain by utilising the offset principle as above.
Which ever way the game approaches young players leaving the game, if indeed it ever does, you cannot get away from the fact RU is a far wealthier game, with just as many wealthy individual benefactors.
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| Quote ="nicktom"Now my list starting oldest to latest :- Andy greg, Mike Greg, Andy platt, Malcom Alker, Longy, Chris Joint, Kev Brown ( which a load on here would like to re-sign ) Shaun Ainscough, Mike Foreshaw, Terry Newton, =#800000Paul Johnson, Shaun Briscoe, etc'"
Using that one is pretty low to be honest.
The rest....well other than Longy (SL era onwards), NONE have as you put it "come back to haunt us".
You mentioning the two Greg's, Joynt and Platt is nonsense.
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| Quote ="nicktom"lol, What a response!! I never said he was a big loss to Wigan, he was a young naive player. As it has been mentioned on here so many times how many young players have not been offered contracts at Wigan and moved on only to come back to haunt us is untrue, if he had not gone to RU it would have been another SL club for sure. I,am sure he would have been playing for GB / England.
Trying getting your head from up your ar.. !!! [size=200He made a mistake with the shirt [/sizeyes, I don,t like RU as much you don,t but when a player scores a try like that against the Aussie tw... and makes good in another code he should be applauded. Faz has made good in RU to name but a few, are these lads suddenly all tos.... ? No they are not.
As for playing for your hometown club, its a great thing do I believe, but the amount of Wigan lads that have been overlooked or not offered contracts that are now elsewhere playing SL is incredible! He choose RU, so what !! Its a Job to them remember as well, they need to pay bills as me and you do. If your employer does not offer you the right money you have a choice, put up or fu.. off elsewhere were someone will pay you the going rate.
End of chat!!'"
NO NO NO NO, making a mistake is putting two different colours of socks on, what he did that day was not a mistake it was deliberate and something any self-respecting Wigan fan cannot forgive especially when the twonk has never apologised for it. Nah feck off Ashton and good riddance not good luck. George Formby was a cracking ukulele player but it doesnt mean that because he comes from Wigan I should watch that sh it!!!
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| Quote ="Owdpopularsider"NO NO NO NO, making a mistake is putting two different colours of socks on, what he did that day was not a mistake it was deliberate and something any self-respecting Wigan fan cannot forgive especially when the twonk has never apologised for it. Nah feck off Ashton and good riddance not good luck. George Formby was a cracking ukulele player but it doesnt mean that because he comes from Wigan I should watch that sh it!!!'"
If it was a Saints RL shirt I could understand the anger but a Northampton RU one?? I can't see why people get so worked up about it.
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| Quote ="getdownmonkeyman", you cannot get away from the fact RU is a far wealthier game, with just as many wealthy individual benefactors.'"
As I posted above, it's nothing to do with "wealthy benefactors", the key issue here is that RU is a national game, and therefore enjoys the privilages (read marketing power) that comes with that.
Until RL can at least get near to this, then it will always be playing second fiddle and struggling to keep hold of it's youngsters, and as I have argued in the past, perhaps more importantly, those youngsters will go straight into RU, bypassing RL completely. We are already seeing the targetting of younger players by the RU, how much longer before the scouts are at school level and sounding out prospects there, with the promise of fame and money that RU can deliver and RL, frankly, cannot.
Ofc RL is insistant on crippling itself with it's continued use of the Communist Cap. It just makes the job of RU that much easier when they come knocking (and let's remember it's not that many years ago when the boot was on the other foot and we were "poaching" RU players, so let's not adopt the high ground here).
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| Quote ="Woody_woody"If it was a Saints RL shirt I could understand the anger but a Northampton RU one?? I can't see why people get so worked up about it.'"
To any self-respecting RL fan its blatanly obvious that donning any RU shirt is a huge 2 fingers up to the sport, but when youre still contracted to your hometown team, well erm..does this really need explaining?
Yes I agree that had it been a Stains shirt there would have been more of an outcry from Wigan fans but it would have hardly made the national papers had it been so, the fact that the scrote did it in a RU shirt meant that national media was involved meaning the two fingered salute to our club was made in front the national public thus damaging our sport/club more than if it had been a Stains shirt. Nah feck him and feck all those that stick up for him!! Come to think of it i'd sooner watch George Formby plucking his strings than watching that ignorant twonk running down the wing for the rah rah's.
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| Quote ="Owdpopularsider"To any self-respecting RL fan its blatanly obvious that donning any RU shirt is a huge 2 fingers up to the sport, but when youre still contracted to your hometown team, well erm..does this really need explaining?
Yes I agree that had it been a Stains shirt there would have been more of an outcry from Wigan fans but it would have hardly made the national papers had it been so, the fact that the scrote did it in a RU shirt meant that national media was involved meaning the two fingered salute to our club was made in front the national public thus damaging our sport/club more than if it had been a Stains shirt. Nah feck him and feck all those that stick up for him!! Come to think of it i'd sooner watch George Formby plucking his strings than watching that ignorant twonk running down the wing for the rah rah's.'"
I strongly doubt that Saints would have allowed him to pose in their shirt until his previous contract had expired. There were so many things about that incident that were totally wrong.
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| Quote ="Owdpopularsider"To any self-respecting RL fan its blatanly obvious that donning any RU shirt is a huge 2 fingers up to the sport, but when youre still contracted to your hometown team, well erm..does this really need explaining?
Yes I agree that had it been a Stains shirt there would have been more of an outcry from Wigan fans but it would have hardly made the national papers had it been so, the fact that the scrote did it in a RU shirt meant that national media was involved meaning the two fingered salute to our club was made in front the national public thus damaging our sport/club more than if it had been a Stains shirt. Nah feck him and feck all those that stick up for him!! Come to think of it i'd sooner watch George Formby plucking his strings than watching that ignorant twonk running down the wing for the rah rah's.'"
I suppose I'll just have to cope with not being a self-respecting RL fan ![Smile icon_smile.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_smile.gif)
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| Quote ="Woody_woody"I suppose I'll just have to cope with not being a self-respecting RL fan
'"
Your choice pal ![Thumbs up icon_thumb.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_thumb.gif)
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| Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Your choice pal
'"
I'll live ![Thumbs up icon_thumb.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_thumb.gif) [size=50now where's my Stuart Barnes effigy gone?[/size
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| When we in RL were bringing over RU Internationals every year and they complained, my view was that it was up to them to sort themselves out.
Now things are reversed my view hasn't changed other than it's up to us in RL to sort it out ourselves.
No one to blame but ourselves and we need to sort it very quickly.
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Quote ="XBrettKennyX"
Communist Cap'"
It's been a while
Interesting interview with McMcmanus at Saints about losing players to the NRL and rugby union ( www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 37,00.html). As much as I believe that a salary cap must be in place, he has a point and I am glad he is going to be making an issue of it with the RFL. Whilst Ellis and Burgess have had success and are flavour of the month at the moment, I can't see it lasting and I think the bigger problem is definitely rugby union. Players going to the NRL, whilst making our league weaker, may make us stronger internationally.
But how long do we stand by whilst we have our best players poached by another sport? Whilst Ashton wasn't established, how long will it be before they complete their interest in Eastmond, and then move onto the Tomkins brothers, McGuires and Harrisons of this world?
Noble brought up a point once of allowing a team to buy a Union international with special dispensation from the salary cap. Whilst I doubt that all teams could afford it, the likes of Wigan, Saints, Leeds and Warrington could easily manage it, if only to ruffle a few feathers in the media. A headline featuring the likes of Wilkinson, Cueto or (God forbid!) Ashton crossing over would be great publicity and would probably do our national game the world of good.
It's certainly an interesting debate, but with the current set of clowns in charge of our game, I doubt we will be changing any time soon.
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Quote ="XBrettKennyX"
Communist Cap'"
It's been a while
Interesting interview with McMcmanus at Saints about losing players to the NRL and rugby union ( www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 37,00.html). As much as I believe that a salary cap must be in place, he has a point and I am glad he is going to be making an issue of it with the RFL. Whilst Ellis and Burgess have had success and are flavour of the month at the moment, I can't see it lasting and I think the bigger problem is definitely rugby union. Players going to the NRL, whilst making our league weaker, may make us stronger internationally.
But how long do we stand by whilst we have our best players poached by another sport? Whilst Ashton wasn't established, how long will it be before they complete their interest in Eastmond, and then move onto the Tomkins brothers, McGuires and Harrisons of this world?
Noble brought up a point once of allowing a team to buy a Union international with special dispensation from the salary cap. Whilst I doubt that all teams could afford it, the likes of Wigan, Saints, Leeds and Warrington could easily manage it, if only to ruffle a few feathers in the media. A headline featuring the likes of Wilkinson, Cueto or (God forbid!) Ashton crossing over would be great publicity and would probably do our national game the world of good.
It's certainly an interesting debate, but with the current set of clowns in charge of our game, I doubt we will be changing any time soon.
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| Quote ="Woody_woody"If it was a Saints RL shirt I could understand the anger but a Northampton RU one?? I can't see why people get so worked up about it.'"
I understand the fierce rivalry between our clubs and all the furore when Judas signed for you lot.
This is very different,he is going to a game which is still trying to kill us off(no matter what some people might say) and for me what he did was very wrong.The be all and end all is union is the enemy and always will be IMO.
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| Quote ="Owdpopularsider"To any self-respecting RL fan its blatanly obvious that donning any RU shirt is a huge 2 fingers up to the sport, but when youre still contracted to your hometown team, well erm..does this really need explaining?
Yes I agree that had it been a Stains shirt there would have been more of an outcry from Wigan fans but it would have hardly made the national papers had it been so, the fact that the scrote did it in a RU shirt meant that national media was involved meaning the two fingered salute to our club was made in front the national public thus damaging our sport/club more than if it had been a Stains shirt. Nah feck him and feck all those that stick up for him!! Come to think of it i'd sooner watch George Formby plucking his strings than watching that ignorant twonk running down the wing for the rah rah's.'"
Well said mate,we might be rivals but the common feeling between all fans of our game is we love it with a passion.
The sooner people realise that union is trying to take our game over the better we all will be to stop the b@st@rds.
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| Quote ="Smurf"Noble brought up a point once of allowing a team to buy a Union international with special dispensation from the salary cap. Whilst I doubt that all teams could afford it, the likes of Wigan, Saints, Leeds and Warrington could easily manage it, if only to ruffle a few feathers in the media. A headline featuring the likes of Wilkinson, Cueto or (God forbid!) Ashton crossing over would be great publicity and would probably do our national game the world of good..'"
If we signed one, they'd make a point of signing four.
It's a non-starter IMO, stick to developing our own.
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| I had contact with him a couple of years ago.
Nothing to do with rugby. He didn't know me from Adam. He was horrible and obnoxious.
He may have mellowed, I have not seen him since then nor heard from any one that has had contact with him.
I do know that on a night out with some Wigan players Phil Bailey thumped him for being a t**t!
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| (Well said mate,we might be rivals but the common feeling between all fans of our game is we love it with a passion.
The sooner people realise that union is trying to take our game over the better we all will be to stop the b@st@rds. )
Thats the point I,am trying to make, If Wigan, Saints, Leeds, and the RL don,t start looking after our young guns in RL the offers will come in from the rah rah,s . Don,t slate them for having their heads turned and some signing. I do agree Chris Ashton did make a Co.. of himself with the shirt thing. like I said before he was allowed to be poached, how many more will follow ?
![BEAT icon_beat.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_beat.gif)
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| Quote ="nicktom"(Well said mate,we might be rivals but the common feeling between all fans of our game is we love it with a passion.
The sooner people realise that union is trying to take our game over the better we all will be to stop the b@st@rds. )
Thats the point I,am trying to make, If Wigan, Saints, Leeds, and the RL don,t start looking after our young guns in RL the offers will come in from the rah rah,s . Don,t slate them for having their heads turned and some signing. I do agree Chris Ashton did make a Co.. of himself with the shirt thing. like I said before he was allowed to be poached, how many more will follow ?
'"
But unsurprisingly, the point you didn't make was how they were supposed to stop him going, when the money was being asked was far more than was even close to being reasonable under the Salary Cap.
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| All of RL should be very worried there is no way they can or ever will compete with with RU. With the draw of their european competitions, world cups, six and tri nations rl is a million miles away from parity and the gap is widening.
The RFL are no more proffessional now than they ever have been and don't have the first idea how to protect what they have let alone expand the game properly. They have all their eggs in one basket with Sky and alienate every club outside of sl more and more every year.
So get used to losing players it will continue for years to come. It is irrelevent that RL is a better spectacle. RU is the dominant sport and it will take which ever player it chooses and there is very little the clubs can do to prevent it.
The English RU clubs are looking more and more at RL as the French clubs have no salary cap and are poaching English RU players.
We can't expect anything from RU given the number of players taken from their sport by RL in the past
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| Quote ="bongs tony"All of RL should be very worried there is no way they can or ever will compete with with RU. With the draw of their european competitions, world cups, six and tri nations rl is a million miles away from parity and the gap is widening.
The RFL are no more proffessional now than they ever have been and don't have the first idea how to protect what they have let alone expand the game properly. They have all their eggs in one basket with Sky and alienate every club outside of sl more and more every year.
So get used to losing players it will continue for years to come. It is irrelevent that RL is a better spectacle. RU is the dominant sport and it will take which ever player it chooses and there is very little the clubs can do to prevent it.
The English RU clubs are looking more and more at RL as the French clubs have no salary cap and are poaching English RU players.
We can't expect anything from RU given the number of players taken from their sport by RL in the past'"
Sorry, mate. I appreciate that your views represent the hopes and desires of the average Leyther rather than the real situation, but there's a lot more the RFL could do than they are at present.
It's actually their very unrealistic ambition to save the game's minnows that is exacerbating this situation.
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| Quote ="Cruncher"Sorry, mate. I appreciate that your views represent the hopes and desires of the average Leyther rather than the real situation, but there's a lot more the RFL could do than they are at present.
It's actually their very unrealistic ambition to save the game's minnows that is exacerbating this situation.'"
My comments are not posted as a leyther I have no desire to see Wigan or any other RL club suffer.
Your right there is a lot more that can be done by the RFL but they have no idea what to do. As far as saving the games minnows that is an impossibility when they will be bailing failed SL clubs out season after season
The point of my post was that ALL of RL should be worried RU is going from strength to strength and this will not be good for our game.
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