Dudson gave away the two penalties that lead to Saints scoring 8 points. The only thing he deserves on the back of those is a rocket up his backside.

Flower gave away the high shot which they kicked 2 points from.

Pretty much agree with this. I've noticed similar in games against Leeds. I'd say the only thing that makes your plays look a little predictable at times is when the dummy runners don't blast into the defence with 100% enthusiasm. If players are tired they sometimes coast a bit making it easier for defences to determine who's going to take the ball in. Wouldn't worry tbh; I think it's a point Wane won't shy away from making when the games really count. And as you say, you're a difficult side to defend against when that commitment in attack is there.

Regarding the refereeing decisions, like Saints fans you're obviously going to look at it from a Wigan biased view. The decisions went for and against you. It balances out. Injuries wise, we were missing some important players too. I thought we edged it and the result was fair, but credit to you, it seems that however deep you have to dig into your youth teams you always manage to put together a team that's very hard to beat.

That said, we won, HAHAAAAAA!

If we'd kicked all our conversions then no you wouldn't, as we had a penalty kick as well and that would have been the difference.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda ...

Wow, your Rugby knowledge is improving massively, well done!

OK, Dudson gave the other stupid penalty. The pair of them ought to know better in a game like that.

I wasn't talking about Saints, but thanks for your input...

The predictable comment is an interesting one. I said the same last year and that didn't turn out too badly. I don't think we'll win it this year (I didn't last year) but we will be there or thereabouts.

I don't think we quite have the talent to win it this year.

The steady loss of good players over the past 4 years is taking its toll.

The kids are doing a stellar job, but they're only kids. We also lack that World Class difference maker that Tomkins was.

This for me is key. We are desperately missing that 3rd playermaker from the back that our game plan depends on, Bowen is not it. Bowen is a very good player in so many ways but a playmaker he aint.

Just watched the superleague show highlights and a couple of points worth clearing up. The Gil Dudson penalty first; could someone clarify the rules on lifting as I thought both legs had to be lifted above horizontal for it to be a penalty. Dudson lifts one leg but Masoe's other foot is still on the floor and he certainly doesn't go above horizontal either. What's the actual rule on this? On the Burgess try; Ian Smith said it was a 'no brainer' as the player had hands on him when the arm touched the floor. In fact he doesn't. Neither Saints player is touching him when the arm touches the floor and Turner only puts his hand on him once he is already back on the move. My question is thisnot part of the initial tackle in this instance and neither was he lying there waiting for the tackle. He was definitely back on the move after both defenders fell off the first tackle.

If this discussion was going on after the first few games of the season i have agreed but i think slowly but surely the speed and accuracy in the line is increasing week on week and Bowen is showing some glimpses of his former glory. Maybe by the play-off's he will be in tip top shape, you can never replace Sam Tompkins he's got everything a coach cant teach and more but im content with Bowen at the minute I think he's been one of our better players going forward whereas Lockers and Bateman who have been on fire going forward all season are now starting to look a little tires so they may need a good rest before the play-offs start I feel we've relied to much on them for too long and it showed going forward against Saints. Although i must say Bateman was like a bull again in defence, he's one tough cookie for 20 years of age!!