Well the same could be said of you. You're still on here, despite telling everyone that you don't care what they think. Despite having nothing new to offer to the debate.

But I'll answer your question. It's become quite clear that you guys genuinely believe what you are saying. Whoever has given you this information has obviously persuaded you. While I personally am not persuaded, because as well as hearing the story you've heard, I've heard an alternative more plausible version, I was starting to think that at least you were all being honest in that you genuinely felt there was a problem.

But Vectra's last post changes that a little. When he starts talking about Hock being on a pittance and not having missed training etc, I know quite a few people who would strongly dispute those claims. So suddenly it all sounds like propaganda from the Gareth Hock camp again.

Sorry, but that's the way it comes over.

I'm not showing any predjudice whatsoever and I couldn't agree more about Hock being the architect of his own problems. I don't know Hock at all personally, other than the odd passing out and about. I'm just saying that as a player he still has a value worth and as a player and its his right to expect to be paid to this, granted he was on a contract. I believe (not getting into how) he was on a gradually increasing contract reduced from what he used to be on as a result of his ban, as was released by the club it was voulantarily increased (as part of his contract) and he felt that he was worth more so presumably asked for it? is this so wrong given that he could probably have got more elsewhere (as many other players have done so before him without getting slammed on these boards) and would have been had his protracted move to Parra not fallen through.

And you are entitled to your opinion. So lets agree to disagree instead of filling over 50 pages of the same thing which all equal to "You've said this and I don't believe you or agree". See it took me a single sentence.

Nowhere have I suggested that Hock is on a "pittance" I've just stated that I believe he was on a lot less than before his ban and that alledgedly he hasn't been missing training. I'll repeat again I'm not getting into how I know these things and it is your right to disbelieve but I have no reason whatsoever not to believe them.

Once again I am not in a camp, I am speaking purely for myself based on information I believe to be true

I think that Last Son of Wigan and/or Vectrabeast should arrange a private meeting with Ian Lenagan (that way no one else is involved) ans explain what they know.
It's been stated many times on here that information has been withheld. Surely that would be in the best interests of the Wigan club.

I saw somewhere that a legal source was mentioned.

Maybe a Wigan practicing member of IL's family could facilitate the meeting.

Why would I as a fan arrange a meeting with the owner of the club???? I'm giving my opinion of a subject based on what I believe has happened, the club has dealt with it in a way they see fit, Hock has moved on and I will be doing the same starting by sitting in the stands in the coming week. I can have an opinion on the subject without needing to get involved to that level surely. several others believe what I believe to be the truth, maybe we should get a whole team of representatives to go down to the club en masse carrying "team Hock banners"

Well I believe he was made aware of at least some of it but can't/won't act as Hock won't discuss the matter and I have not seen repeated assertions by anyone he wasn't.

Because you are one of a few people who claim to know what has gone on and also claim that the owner doesn't. The en masse Hock banners is stupid to the extreme.

As I said it would be in IL and the clubs best interest if this whole affair was brought to a close and the truth outed. That is why I suggested a private meeting.

No drama, just a fair conclusion. If Hock has been wronged he deserves it.

This is brilliant. Because myself and Vectra has offered a second opinion on events which we know is true we are expected to hold a private meeting with the chairman of the club?! Ha!

I think IL would be inundated with fans knocking at his door if the solution was a private meeting each time fans disagreed on a forum.

I suspect there is more to what has gone on (just about everyone does) I wouldn't have an interest in this thread if I didn't - in a situation like this the full truth never or very rarely comes out. Hock himself has not really said very much so we do not have his side of the story and until he does outline his side of things there will be room for doubts. Given the strongly worded statement from the club I can only conclude that Hock has a good reason for saying very little (beyond the fact that he is still contracted to the club).

I am not one who falls into the unquestioning group - given some things that have happened in the past I doubt anyone could be (under ML for instance).

I also know that rumours have a habit of being amplified and made more interesting with the telling (whatever the untold story is)- where the full truth lies I have no idea but until someone, preferably Hock himself or someone speaking on his behalf, actually does put the other side of the story in the public domain then there will be rumours/claims etc - just I choose not to believe them to be the gospel truth.

I will continue to watch events and maybe one day (although I won't hold my breath) the full story will emerge - but somehow I doubt it.

But do you know for definite that's its true, or are you taking one side of the story as 'gospel' ?

I've not really got involved in this discussion until now. I was relatively undecided about what was happening but I now think the truth lies closer to IL's version of events due to some recent information received.

What I would like to know is how you know your version to be the truth? Not trying to get into a row, be accused of bullying or anything else like that. Just curious as to how you know it to be true. All of you can't have been at the meeting or seen all the events leading up to this. Is it one mans story from the other forum that you all believe?

This is getting old. I'm finding that I'm repeating myself over and over.

Its back in the thread somewhere think it was vectrabeast but may be wrong. Am on my phone so its a nigtmare sifting back through.

If i can be bothered tonight (highly unlikley though) ill go back and post the link to the post.

Vectra if it wasnt you who said il doesnt have a clue as to whats going on accept my appologies but it was one of the conspiracy theorists.

Fair enough, I can't be bothered looking back over 50 pages either. I was told IL had been informed of at least some of the goings on by someone with a name familiar to many as a players agent.