Do you not think that greats like Edwards, Gregory and Hanley wanted to win EVERY game, which is what Wane has been criticised for?
Edwards hated losing more than he enjoyed winning, and still does (as a coach)

Do you really believe what you typed there, do you really think that the coach of one of the top sides in the UK does not know this?

Yes I do believe this. It's a fault and it's also at the same time a winners attitude.

Sometimes a winners pride doesn't let Wane ease up mid season as he hates to lose.

I'm not saying he's stupid or doesn't know the game BUT I don't think he doesn't know how to take his foot off full throttle.

So, you don't think failure at the pointy end of last season had anything to do with TL being injured at a crucial time, and Finch not being interested, as his future had been mapped out?

There's a difference between the Wigan way and wanting over night success

No one can compare anyone to Madge as he's a one off and trend setter like Bellamy and Bennett before him. People say Tomkins is a once in a generation player well Madge it's a once in a generation super coach.

Wane has had to deal with the loss of a leadership team as well as other senior players that Madge had at his disposal. He's obviously realised that the key to any future and sustained success is by developing a core of talented home grown players. He's doing it right but it takes longer than he's had so far.

I certainly don't think giving Wane a little more time is going against a overall goal of being the dominant English power.

Successful sportsmen/women thrive off the fear of failure.

Shaun Edwards did not try to win every game he ever played in irrespective of what he may say. Shaun Edwards was one of the leading lights in destroying Dorahay which makes a mockery of his attacks upon Brett Kenny re the St Helens premiership match. Similarly, even Shaun Edwards had an A game which he produced with astounding regularity when everything was on the line and it truly mattered. All the greats had a B game standard in them but when it mattered they brought their A game. Bonuses helped too.

If Edwards, Gregory and Hanley had played in this era do you honestly think they would have approached the season as they did back then or would they have been more Leeds. The difference being they would have won both the SL GF and the CC.

I understand what Shaun Wane wants but I also know as you and every other Wigan fan knows, he asks the players to prepare and play at a standard he was not prepared to do (Read John Monie). As a player Shaun Wane dined off the Manly WCC. You would be luck to remember many more similar efforts.

You make a very good point re winners pride. Possibly foolish pride?

I gather that was aimed at me, fwiw I personally rate him as a coach. Just don't rate his handling of some situations within the club, the company he keeps or some of his comments to the media. His comments about gelling are very poor.

Of course i think it played a massive part in the way we died off towards the end of year. It's stupid to suggest that anyone would say otherwise as it's glaring obvious.

But i also go back to some of the injuries we received in training last year i.e did Lima not get injured during what was described as a full contact mid season training session? I'd also talk up the numerous comments he made which motivated other sides especially the war of words he had with Leeds in the lead up to the play off semi final or the extra motivation he gave to Warrington. I'd also point to other 'crass' comments like the ones directed at Saints saying something like 'we want to be playing in the big games (challenge cup) not having a week off like Saints have'

That being said, and going back to my OP on this thread, people seem unable to have a reasoned argument about Wane. Either it's black and white with some people. On the one hand some won't admit that he's ever made a mistake or on the other hand we have others who think won't see any positivity in the job he's done so far.

It could well be but it all depends on if he's going to learn from it. You can forgive a rookie coach from falling to pride. At the end of the day he's Wigan to the core and he probably saw the success we had mid season, especially after Leeds away, and thought he'd keep going hell for leather at it.

We are not talking about overnight success though and therein lies the crux. Shaun Wane had the best apprenticeship anybody could wish for under in your words a once in a generation super coach. He was appointed on the pretext of continuity. However, since becoming coach he has been critical of Madge, boasted how he would do it better than Madge and abandoned significant aspects of the philosophy of Madge to the point you could question did he truly learn and understand what Madge was trying to teach him. The question mark that hangs over Wane is does he understand what is needed to win finals football. McDermott at Leeds does. Shaun Wane's 'Wigan Way' resembles lets be flat track bullys and play non finals but some would say more entertaining RL. Even Rogues thinks our season last season was superb. When I think of Madge I think of John Monie, I think of Graham Lowe, I think of Shaun Edwards the player who all sang from the same hymn sheet and it appears a differwent one from Shaun Wane. Shaun may need to dig out the how To Win Finals Football hymn sheet left for him by Madge, John Monie and Graham Lowe.

I think many people here even the likes of Rogues and the majority who come to the DW are quite happy looking good when it does not matter at the expense of what Wigan RLFC represents. Shaun Wane's RL reminds me of Dougie Laughton's RL. Widnes had the team to beat us at Wembley but they were more interested in entertainment at all costs and could not play finals football. McDermott, Sinfield, Leeds fans must LOL at 'The Wane Way'

Something to ponder; Shaun Wane apart from Sam wants players who are very similar yet he wants them to play non final razzle dazzle RL. It is often muted that great coaches get the most from the players at their disposal and that a huge mistake is to ask players to play in a way they are not suited. Doug Laughton had players who fitted his philosophy, Tony Smith has players who fit his philosophy, Brian Mcdermott has players who fit his philosophy. Does Shaun Wane? What is Shaun Wane's philosophy? He talks about play hard/tough RL but at the same time wants razzle dazzle RL. Can you have your cake and eat it?

It seems to me that vast conclusions are being drawn from the fact that Shaun Wane didn't win the Challenge Cup and/or the Grand Final in his first season as coach.

Have we now reached the stage where we are totally dismissive of finishing top, beating most other teams, etc? Is it really such an underachievement to do that in your first season that it's just treated as irrelevant?

TBF i agree with you to some extent but i wouldn't go to the lengths that you have.

I think Wane learned plenty from Madge and i also think he respects his former mentor. I certainly thinks he 'bought in' to Maguire's discipline approach to the squad. I think he's continued to set the same high professional standards that Madge did and that Wane's standards for what he expects or deems acceptable are way above those of Noble or Milward.

Then again i agree with your comments regarding moving away from what made the team successful. I have to admit that I'm both feet fully in the defence camp. I want to see us move back towards the hard nosed, brutal and unrelenting defensive patterns we saw under Madge. If that impacts on our glitzy attacking patterns then so be it. I truly agree with the saying of 'attack wins games where defence wins championships'. For me Wane moved to far away from that and when we came to real crunch games our old defensive strategy was the deciding difference in us not making a final.

That being said i can't truly knock Wane due to him having a different philosophy on how the game should be played and i don't blame him for trying to put his own stamp on the side. I just think he moved to far away too quickly.

I can honestly see what Wane want's to achieve and i'm excited to see if he can deliver it. If he can then it will generate a long period of success for us and i'm happy to back him (not that he needs my backing)