Yep, it was a clash of heads with Clubb IIRC. I'm sure no vital organs were damaged however.

I'm not defending by any means those shocking stats but the Wane game plan is to spread the ball wide irrespective of field position and at any time in a game, it's no wonder the props stats are so bad, our/wanes game plan has never really suited a forward game, but at the minute we could do with simplyfying it and keep it tight in the middle, to try and gain some go forward and reduce the amount of errors where producing

Perhaps you could not be so condescending? this a forum, I shared my opinion. If you do not agree with that is fine, you like everyone else on here are entitled to their opinion.
if you are referring to his kick over the top for Burgess try, yes that was great and in my opinion 10 seconds of magic in 80 minutes is not good enough. In my opinion SW is to blame for Williams being chucked in at the deep end with a poor recruitment strategy but he is what we have and therefore will come in for scrutiny. That is life.

Hang on a minute. How do you know it is Wane's fault? What about Ian Lenegan? Why is it he is largely escaping any criticism?

It seems to be a popular opinion that Wane calls the team building shots and is insistent we play kids and replace everyone from within. I don't buy that at all!

Promoting from within=Cheap

Cheap is music to the ears of Ian Lenagan.

Ian Lenagan is a legend for what he's done for this club but he as much as anybody needs to change and improve based on current performance.

You can't invest considerable resources and faith in an academy only to then forget about it whenever the next first team contract expires.

That said, there's absolutely no guarantee that a special academy player will mature into an equally special first team regular.

The smart play is to balance one against the other but the task is made enormously difficult by the complications which sprout from how the former combine with the latter. It's no use putting talented academy lads alongside established pros who don't provide a particularly good example or possess serious flaws within their game because bad habits picked up at an early age can take a lifetime to undo.

The best teams think ahead two or three years. But it's very difficult. It only takes one or two bad buys from Australia to lock up a significant chunk of the salary cap for a desperately lengthy period. Suddenly long-term thinking goes out the window and the club resorts to fighting fires with panic buys.

Generally speaking I think Wigan have done ok. But Wane/the Chairman/whomever has allowed one or two deficiencies to develop within the team which, left unchecked, could become a destabilising problem. I think next season's transfer market is absolutely critical for Wigan. A couple of good quality established pros should plug the gap. But the sixty-four million dollar question is - who?

Any coach stupid enough to take on a job where they do not have full control of player recruitment deserves criticism. He is paid to deliver results no one can do that with one arm tied behind their back. I dont believe this is the case. Wane has full control and has failed miserably.

Why all the talk about next season? We've only played 6 games so far in this one. Imo we only need a small improvement to become a contender and with the troops yet to return I'm not writing us off yet. I say again, the quality of Superleague being what it is means we are still in with a chance of success this year. As crap as we were against Leeds we should have been buried. Trouble is, every team in the comp is poor!

Stop talking sense - this won't go down well!

Even if we lose to Saints (I'm not saying we will) - we can win against Wakey, Salford and Catalans, and by my reckoning we will be in 4th place or thereabouts. Something to build on for sure.

Our period of dominance in the late 80s and early 90s was achieved with a policy of the board and not the coach making the signings so we must have had quite a few stupid coaches by your reasoning back then. They seem to have managed to deliver results. To be a success a coach doesn't necessarily need to have chosen the squad he has at his disposal. He just needs to be able to organise their play in a way that fits the strengths of those players he has and does not rely on areas of the game at which they are weaker.

Perhaps we are currently struggling to adapt the style of play after the loss of some personnel with strengths we no longer have and will soon fix it. Perhaps the person(s) responsible for recruitment policy has made error(s) in their approach that are now cumulatively costing us as the team is just less capable of competing at the top. Maybe it is a bit of both. Either way some mistakes have been made somewhere, making mistakes is fine, everyone does that at some point. It is recognising that you have made mistakes and how you react to those mistakes that matters. The people in charge at the club (board and coach) have done alright so far so I am confident that what is currently not right will be fixed. It just remains to be seen how that fix is achieved.

Hang on a second: I said Wigan seem underpowered in the front row. This does not equate to writing Wigan off because the club still possesses quality players. And I agree, the competition seems mediocre. It's a lengthy season and injuries will undoubtedly go a long way toward deciding who finishes in the top 4.

Strange thing is, I seem to recall that most people on here pre-season were saying how strong the squad looked, and particularly the pack. They just haven't got going yet, but it's hard to believe they've all turned into no hopers in that time.

I think that's pretty offensive to the rest of the league to be honest with you. The problem for you is that we were pretty bad on the night too. If we'd turned it on like we did against Hull, with passes sticking and our left hand side (Hall and Ablett especially) not having their worst game in memory, then the result could have got embarrassing for you. Not every team in the competition is poor, there is no stand out excellent team like there has been in the past, but you'll need Leeds and Saints to fall off a cliff before either side is as poor as Wigan have been in the opening 6 games. One or two players performing poorly would require a small improvement, but realistically how many of your lot can walk around with any pride in their recent performances?

I think you are right about how it used to be in that I remember very well John Monie wanted to sign Phil Blake but Mo delivered him Frano Botica instead. Monie was quite frank he was baffled as to why Wigan would sign a player unproven at the game compared to Blake. He just got on with the job and look how that turned out.

However that was back then but what about now? Wane seemed very keen to play Williams at 6 and decided even with one being long term injured we didn't need any new centres over Thornley, Gelling and Sarge. Were those decisions forced upon him or, as I suspect, they were his idea in the first place?



Do you think Wane has recognised these mistakes? You said yourself "He just needs to be able to organise their play in a way that fits the strengths of those players he has " and do you honestly think he is doing this? I don't because we keep playing the same way, week in week out. He is trying to play the same game that brought success before with players who can't execute the tactics. Our passing is shocking and the fast lateral moving the ball along the line requires accurate passing. Bowen is not Sam Tomkins but he is trying to use him exactly the same way.

As to the pack there are some big lads in it so I don't think size is an issue but they spread out and don't tackle as a unit so are not putting players on their backs in defense and if you look at the stats they don't do many meters or carries on attack but not in my opinion because they are being stopped dead but because they move it wide very often.

To me it looks like the last thing Wane is doing is organising the teams play in a way that fits the strengths of those players he has.

It may be when Flower and Lockers return the old tactics deliver more success than they are doing now but what if Lockers is injured again and why in his and Flowers absence hasn't Wane adapted the game plan to the players he [ihas[/i got available?