And even more fascinating, would it actually mean anything ... apart from giving those who have already decided that Wane is not the man a great soundbite?

John Monie lost his first two, and he was cr@p wasn't he!!!

Exactly (and during that year as well). I think this is very true and given we have Farrell out for a game and Carmont out injured my thoughts on the squad (to get back to the title of this thread) is it is simply not good enough. I'd be astonished if we beat Leeds on Saturday.

I feel sorry for Wane because of this poor recruitment although Lauaki is supposed to be a player he wanted isn't he?

That said he has not IMO helped himself with a mishandled pre-season and a poor team selection whereby we end up with Lockers at stand off. That should only be happening if we have loads of injuries/suspensions not as par for the course as TL moved to 9 and Micky Mac goes off.

The signings in 2005 and 2006 couldn't be less like the signings we've made for this year.

Expensive, over the hill imports compared to young players with potential.

Thats not to say that I don't agree that our recruitment hasn't been good and the squad isn't up to the standard we would want but the recruitment strategy is completely different.

What the hell are you going on about colourful language like mine? Where have i used colourful language?

My opinion is that the players we lost where all top players and none of them have been replaced.

Starting with: Ryan Hoffman - awesome year last year worked hard in attack and defence all year. Hock now at 2nd row, not the same player he used to be, dropped a lot of ball on Sunday, did make a good break in the game but I do not think he has replaced Ryan Hoffman.

Joel Tomkins - another awesome guy we have lost and not replaced especially in attack made loads of metres and was strong in defence but probably a better 2nd row - Goudling well after him dropping ball about 10 times which should of gone into Charnleys hands and try time, apart from that Goulding and Charnleys defence wasn't bad but again I do not think Goudling has filled Tomkins boots.

Paul Deacon - another world class player not been replaced he got the boys round the park since hes been here he is probably one of the biggest losses should come out of retirement for another year lol... - Leulaui yes he is awesome player but I do not think him and finch play well together at 6 and 7 and I believe Leuluai is a WORLD CLASS HOOKER not half back. Maybe we need to try one of the young lads in place for Leuluai and see how they do, if we don't get them in now they might never get in. Sam Tomkins got his chance and look at him now!!!

Andy Coley - Maybe give a few good penalities away but the yards he made last season was unbelievable and his defence is another matter in the middle of the park - Ben Flower/Lauaki - I know its early but neither of them made a yard between them on Sunday.

Mike Mcguire - I do not need to say why but with his absence I believe we are going to go down hill. No disrespect to Shaun Wane but I believe Mcguire should have been replaced by another Aussie coach.

Our signings have not been good enough, the training has been different (from training in Scotland - freezing to training in Florida (More of a holiday if you ask me).

Kicking game well there hasn't really been one but ive never seen it so bad finch tried and was crap, leuluai tried and was crap, sam tried and was crap so we give it pat richards and he just put it 500 ft in the air but it went backwards so we lost yards. Speaking of Richards will somebody please take that caravan off his back...

Oh well i've said what I want to say but here is the team I would play:

1) Sam Tomkins
2) Josh Charnley
3) Ant Gelling - I'd give him a run out even though I believe we needed to sign a big name centre.
4) Geroge Carmont
5) Pat Richards
6) Sam Powell Or O'laughlin
7) Brett Finch


Lima
9) Leulaui
10) Mossop
11) Hansen
12) Farrell / Hock
13) O'Loughlin
subs: Lauaki, Mcllorum, Flower, Farrell / Hock

Tuson good defence but doesn't offer much as a forward in attack.

All this bull-crap investment with Wales and Rugby Union is benefiting them not wigan... Putting Wales on the map for rugby and letting rugby union take our players... No players have come our way and I do not want any of there players to come this way...

Signings we should of made is super league player

Hoffman out - could of got Jason Chan in why we could.
Joel out - rumours was him who played for England was coming over here jack reed
Paul Deacon out - Micahel Witt in
Andy Coley out - Andy Lynch would of been a brilliant signing

Instead we got Ben Flower and Gil Dudson!?!?!? I know we couldnt have signed all of the players due to salary cap but at least we could of signed one decent player we are suppose to be one of the biggest RL clubs in the world and we signing donkeys...

Yes early days... I agree hope all these players prove me wrong. Bring on the Rhinos this Sat!!!

[i"Ever since it was made public he was the new coach [uhes been doing nothing but bragging[/u how hes going to do this and that and how hes going to make us some kind of lethal weapon in attack. Add to that the way [uhes been less than complimentary about Madges tactics/gameplan[/u in some of his interviews and i think you can forgive people for questioning him. [uThe way he was talking our forwards were going to run harder and our backs were going to be so skillful and fast that they would run rings around the opposition[/u. He was looking to win every game in his own words.

"He may turn out to of been right as the season progresses but i think most people expected to see something much better than they have done so far and[u that is down to Wanes big talking throughout the off season[/u."[/i

Perhaps not colourful but way OTT, and displaying far more animosity than is justified by what we've seen so far.

If we're still performing badly in a few weeks, then I'll give more credit to such opinions, but cetainly not at this early stage (and certainly not to imaginary offences such as 'bragging' and 'talking big').

Come on man, you know as well as i do Wane has only got the job because hes Ians puppet/yes man. I imagine he comes much cheaper than Madge as well. The world and his dog knows he is not good enough to coach Wigan and i think you will find out sooner rather than later...

As much as I do think you have exaggerated in your post, I do think Wane set himself up for a fall with all the talking in the off season.

Of course he did. Hes been talking like we would see something weve never seen before in terms of enthusiasm, strength, speed and skill with an almost unbreachable defence . Its not wrong to question him when all weve seen is mistake ridden clueless performances with questionable defence.

A very presumptuous statement which also sounds suspiciously as if you've had an axe to grind about this all along. (I'd be interested to know if you've made accusations of this sort previously, i.e before the season started).

For all that 'jobs for the boys' conspiracy theorists will feel even more convinced that they're right because of the recent result, there are at least as many fans - if not more - who believe that Wane should have got the job because he's served a long apprenticeship, he's won everything there is to win at junior level and that not to appoint him, as well as a sign that Wigan RL don't reward loyal servants who have done everything possible to prove themsleves, might also have caused disruption within the club.

However, in case you're a genuine fan who's making these emotive posts because he cares a lot about Wigan rather than because he simply dislikes Shaun Wane, I'll say this one more time - if Wigan continue to screw up for the next few weeks, and there are clear indications that the team's standards have slipped (and pre-season matches are no clear indication of anything, ever), then I too will voice doubts that Shaun Wane is not the man for the job. But I'm certainly not going to do that on the basis of the first result of the season, if for no other reason than not wanting to risk looking a complete bloody idiot in a few months' time.

Like a lot of others, I do think that Sean Wane has set himself up for a fall. His comment about wanting all 3 trophies in the press for example.

I also think we are a vastly weaker side this season than last. Our recruitment for this season has me scratching my head.

After losing 'madge' I know we are stepping down in class for the coach, and after studying Wane, he isn't in my opinion intelligent enough to take us forward. In football they have low IQ managers all over the place, but our game requires the skills of a chess master.

I always liked Wane as a player and he seems to have 'done the business' in the junior ranks, according to reports. He does deserve his chance, but I do think he is fighting a losing battle. I hope he proves me and the rest of the doubters wrong. But when you have been watching Wigan since the late 1950s as I have, you get a bit of an education in the game, and only accept the best.

The problem for a coach is, they always get replaced whether successful or not. It always depends on when.

This weekends match should be very interesting.

So you don't think for example Flower has more in common with Oliver Wilkes and Jordan James or Hoffman or Joel?

Flower and Lauaki have gone right into the first team ahead of any junior players so are clearly not viewed as players with potential but as the finished article.

We didn't need players with potential we needed replacements for the experienced players who left.



I think calling the recruitment a "strategy" is being way too complimentary.

I think that is fair enough and I also think the recruitment has shafted Wane's chances somewhat so he may be on a hiding to nothing anyway.

That said one of the reasons I was happy for Wane to take over was I expected continuity from Madge. What I am reading on here is that Wane is taking a completely different approach. Where has that rumour(?) come from?

I think he's been quoted as saying a couple of times that he wants to play a wider attacking game than Maguire favoured. I'm not sure that anyone should interpret that as an implied criticism of Maguire's tactics or take it as evidence that Wane is moving right away from what we were doing before - but needless to say, some people are.

We played a quite attacking style under madge with brutal defense, How is Wane going to better that? He said he was going to America and work on speed, looks like that failed as they all looked bulked up and a whole lot slower.

We weren't really that attack minded under Maguire. Our only real attacking plan was to drive the ball far enough up field to allow for a set move. The set moves were incredibly effective, but when players made errors they'd have to go back to the start and go through the motions again. That's one reason why Wire found it easier to rack up high scores. They played a style that meant they could make breaks from anywhere on the pitch and make metres easier. I imagine Wane wants to combine the rigid attacking structure that Maguire brought with the more off the cuff style of play that Wire used to such good effect.

A few points:

1. It's way too early to be evaluationg Wane. He needs at least half a dozen games grace. Personally I have my doubts about him, but like the guy and think he has earned a shot at the job. I really hope he can cut it.

2. Our signings (or lack of) have been laughable. Have we really spent up to the CC? I can't see where the money has gone.

3. In terms of the competition, - relax. The real competition only starts in August.

One Man Rugby.

A set move? Wane needs to learn what one is...

Yes because I am sure Wane knows no set moves and we have done none in training. On Sunday it couldnt possibly be anything to do with the team playing poorly and not executing them properly.

I really cant believe the over the top reaction on these boards since Sunday, after just one game. Some of the criticism of Shaun Wane and certain players has been beyond a joke and with some posters there seems to be a much more personal element to it than just straightforward criticism.

over the top? They looked slow, unfit and unwilling, its nothing personal just fact. If it was personal my season ticket wouldnt have been renewed. Take you head out of the clouds and think about the game and execution.

Some people on here need to learn how to debate.

There is far too much

"Some posters have it in for XXX"

"Some posters will say anything that makes YYY look bad"

"Some posters dare to criticise the current set up"

NO.

Some posters have views and refuse to follow the happy clappy crowd.

Nothing to do with my head in the clouds.I just think its pathetic how people are slating Wane after one game and trying to make out we were never that poor under Maguire when we plainly were. Indeed there were a few games last year when we were awful and as bad, if not worse, than we was on Sunday.

If you think we were slow, unfit and unwilling that then why heap all the blame on Wane's door? Isnt Bitcon the conditioner so why arent you slating him if you think they are slow and unfit? If players are unwilling and complacent then surely that is the players fault? The criticism and accusations that are flying around after 1 game is ridiculous and paints many Wigan fans in a bad light imo, particulalry when they spout nonsense like Wane needs to learn a set move and accuse him of saying and doing things that he hasnt even done. Wane has served his apprenticeship and deserves his chance which should surely consist of more than being hung to dry after one game. It is simply far too early to judge him. If we are playing like that in week 10 then all means give it to him with both barrells but I am sure we wont be.

Bitcon works for Wane. I didnt see us play as bad last year...name the game for me and I may reconsider. How can you blame the player for being unfit and conditioned, if they have done what they have been told pre season, if not why are they playing? If they have been told what to do then it isnt there fault. Have you ever played the game? Again I didnt say Wane deserves the sack or didnt deserve the shot, but look at Madges first game and compare the difference...a coach can only be judged on his last game so lets do that as we cant do anything else.