Zak is a 8 out of 10 payer but rads was a 9-10/ player

Isa has been a decent threat with the ball recently. I don’t think just what Isa brings to the side is appreciated enough. You cannot measure some of the things he adds. His desire, his spirit, leadership etc. He’s a guy who drags every ounce of talent out of himself and I think he’s vital to this squad. He’s had a monopoly on that right sided second row spot since Bateman left and whilst that probably won’t be the case from next season, I’d have a place in my 17 for him. I’d like to see him play a bit more in the middle at 13. He turned his career round at Widnes when he went in to the middle.

You do realise the two are completely the different right? That's unless you never liked ZH as a player? If that's the case and he's now "proving you wrong", despite not being as good as he once was (not a dig) then you really do put too much emphasis on the wrong areas of the game.

You also realise you just contradicted yourself too. What is GW then? A player who comes alive on the opposition 20m line, or not? You can't bag him for not being the strike centre you wanted him to be and then bag him for only coming alive near the try line. By acknowledging he's comes alive near the line means, by definition, he's a strike 2nd row.

Zac's effort in this team is second to none, if all our players turned up with the same attitude we would be a better team. For me, he was our MOTM tonight.

No I didn’t like Zak as a player because of the fact he consistently let his team down.

He did the same with us initially.

He this season seems to be applying himself and is putting in some fantastic performances. He has matured, he has lost his petulant side. He is becoming a leader who steps up when we need a big play.

I’m not sure how I contradicted myself. Saints fans when we signed him said he only looks interested in the opposition 20m zone.

Also he is a second row not a centre.

You can’t carry a second row forward who isn’t willing to make a tough carry off the line.

It’s a basic requirement of the role.

A strike second row also has the ability to score a try or break a tackle, no player playing second row can shirk the hard yards though...once again which is exactly the reason he can’t get a regular spot in the 17.

Funnily enough that's another area we disagree on. Lam is probably the worst coach we've had since Betts (2003), but you seem to think he's doing a stand up job.

Coaches need to get the best out of players. Some fans want robots and commitment and that's it. As another poster has said, Greenwood offers something different and if Lam isn't open to anything outside of his tunnel vision, that speaks louder about his lack of ability than anything else.

OT, but id recommend to anyone who has an interest in sport, or great teams goes and watches the Last Dance documentary. It's a perfect example of how a truly master coach works with different personalities to greater benefit the team. In that Bulls side you couldn't have matched two more different personalities than Jordan and Rodman, but the coach made it work. He understood different players have different needs and approaches to the game.

I think Lam did a great job today and I think he deserves a chance to build his team into next season, I think it’s great he is blooding youngsters and we are seeing certain players improve.

It’s also convenient to forget that without Lam it’s unlikely we would have both Hastings and French.

You can turn it all you want but Lam doesn’t see him as good enough to play in our 17, neither did Neil Henry or Garth Brenan.

Saints were more than happy to take a real secondrow forward in exchange for him as were most of their fans.

That speaks volumes.

He won’t get another contract at Wigan if Lam is here or not in my opinion.

Where is that stripey chap from Nottingham telling us all how Hardaker is about to implode again???

Zac is turning into a leader for us,he's always there to congratulate anyone who scored or makes a good tackle i think he's just grown up and enjoying his rugby again, and while we shouldn't forget what's happened before he should be judged on what he's doing for us

Greenwood was always a very frustrating figure for Saints fans. There’s no doubting his talent but as others have alluded to, his mentality and lack of toughness was always questioned. He always came across like someone who was more than capable but never really wanted it enough. He’s not someone I’d want at my side when the going got tough. Taia in comparison came in and not only offered a huge attacking threat he was also willing to get his hands dirty. Greenwood not so much.
On the flip side, as you’ve stated in your post, 20 yards out there’s probably only Liam Farrell who knows how to run a better line and crash over. He’s still “only” 27 so plenty time left but you’d like to think he’d have toughened up a bit by now.

As for the game last night, for what it’s worth I thought Hardaker was superb but for me the changing point was Smith to the halves, I thought you looked much more dangerous after that. As an opposition fan I’d be more wary of Smith than Leuluai in an attacking sense without a doubt. Thought Singleton went well too, he’ll quickly become your best prop alongside Havard.

Was speaking up a coach about Greenwood a few years ago when he moved to the Titans.

I thought it was a great move for him and he disagreed.

His told me basically Greenwood had always been the superstar as a kid. He was always destined for the pro game. He was the lad that got the ball in the juniors and went the length of the field scoring tries for fun on nearly every carry.

He then joined Saints and again showed up very well in their Academy team and was quickly introduced to the first team. He joined the first team and was surrounded by a dominant pack so he could be that luxury player.

His opinion was that through this development and his SL career he had never had to graft. Never had to learn the tough stuff and that the NRL would quickly find him out or be the making of him as he would have to develop those traits pretty quickly if he was to be a success. We know how that went.

He is 27 now and still it seems unwilling to do the basic requirements of the job of a secondrow forward. I’ve no doubt he has bags of talent and potential but there is something missing and again at his stage of his career I’m not sure he can or has the time to find it if he wishes to be a regular in a team with trophy ambitions.

I hope he doesn’t. If he can keep playing like he did last night (and not screw-up off the field), he should be first pick at centre for England at the World Cup.
Didn’t think we went too well last year at full-back, but he’s certainly found form playing at centre.

Gildart,King,Percival are all better centre's than Zak and you also have Watkins showing some decent form for Salford

I'd have him in the squad but he probably doesn't get a game.

A lot can happen in 12 months though.

Hes had a difficult/poor 12 months (when I say 12 months I'm basing it in rugby terms I.e from 1/3rd away through last season to Aug this year 1/3rd of this season). All of it started with the head injury/concussion, and let's not forget that some.players never recover from things like that.

But since his return, apart from the HKR game where EVERYONE was awful Greenwood has shown up well. Is he going to make 50 tackles every game, no. Is he going to take the ball up 25 times a game and make 200 yards, probably not.
Comparing him to Isa doesnt donwother of them any good, on fact it shows up what is lacking in both of them.
But the issue is, can he fit into the squad and offer something different to what others can.
Answer is Yes.
He was one of our better players against Saints and stood up well to their bigger more physical forwards. He runs good lines and is more of a handful in the opposition half and offers a different type threat.

Glad to have him back something like, good on him

I agree Jukesy. There seems to be an overemphasis on what he doesn't bring and an undervaluing of what he does. He's never going to be aggressive but he certainly seems to be making strides on toughness. The clash of heads last night was a bad one and last season would have seen him off the field for the rest of the game. Last night he was back on and made a significant contribution to the win. Let's give credit where it's due.

He brings another dimension to our attack and does things our other options in that position can't. Moreover he operated well on the right last night (something we've been continuously told he can't do) which meant we could keep Faz in his most effective position whilst still adding an attacking threat on the right.

Returning to the thread title, Zak was outstanding last night. He seems to bleed Cherry and White. There were many doubts and doubters when he signed, which was understandable given his track record, but he genuinely seems to have got himself on the right track and his passion for the shirt is a joy to see. Long may it continue.

Quote ="Phuzzy"Returning to the thread title, Zak was outstanding last night. He seems to bleed Cherry and White. There were many doubts and doubters when he signed, which was understandable given his track record, but he genuinely seems to have got himself on the right track and his passion for the shirt is a joy to see. Long may it continue.'" https://www.facebook.com/13921556610090 ... xtid=0&d=w

Quote ="Phuzzy"Returning to the thread title, Zak was outstanding last night. He seems to bleed Cherry and White. There were many doubts and doubters when he signed, which was understandable given his track record, but he genuinely seems to have got himself on the right track and his passion for the shirt is a joy to see. Long may it continue.'" https://www.facebook.com/13921556610090 ... xtid=0&d=w

Love it! If we can maintain the passion we showed last night for the rest of the season we could still have a say.

That Jackson Hastings shows no interest in playing for Wigan, no leadership, no commitment

Looks like he doesn’t enjoy being at Wigan was the main point of a thread on the VT this morning.

I’ve said with Hastings before, he’s made a couple of silly comments on social media but the main problem he’s faced in his time here regards building relationships with the support base has been a global pandemic meaning he can’t interact with anybody. If that win last night was in front of 3,000 Wiganers at the Halliwell Jones, he goes nuts at the end in front of the fans and people lap it up and love the bloke.

If that comment was aimed at me, Brian, you'll see my comments related to his attitude and performance against Salford and that game/team alone. I have not changed my opinion regarding that one iota. If he shows the same commitment that he did last night the next time we play them then...and only then...will I reappraise my opinion.

Just to emphasise my point:

Last night: 36 tackles and 111 metres.
Against Salford: 13 tackles and 56 metres

Can't believe he did that pre season u-turn. Really bad how he never joined us

Last player to keave the field at every home game we played

Exactly and given more time, more big away games especially, he would’ve got everybody on side I’m sure. His effort on the field has been great and it’s really sad he’ll probably leave this club without having had the opportunity to really build a bond with our support. He had those few games early in the season but has been robbed of a lot of others.