We should hammer Catalans on Sunday based on this logic

I think Hastings is a breath of fresh air for the game, a player who just says it as it is.



Salford literally saved his life, Ian Watson in particular played a big part in that.



Hastings showed respect by not celebrating the try imo and although the fact that we got it wrong performance wise I dint think you can put that down to one player.



Hastings has been very good for Wigan so far and I’ve seen little to question his attitude or commitment to the cause.

I only asked should hastings go because if is attitude stinks and is a disgrace as you out it then what do we do, surely that unacceptable attitude will rise to the surface in other ways?



On the strawman

Well to be fair you have already told me that I have no other arguments (so who's putting words in whos mouth?)

You told me I was ok with us parking the bus (putting words in my mouth again)

In a nother post you've already told me that you cant believe something would be true or I could think that when it was you who came up with the statement not me (thanks again for telling me what I was thinking).



Your words



"I'm not usually one for bagging individual players and I like Hastings. However last night's attitude was a disgrace and no way to go into a top flight sporting contest. His attitude set the tone. Salford wanted it more and it showed."



And yet you then say later when challenged that you didnt say Hastings attitude was the only factor



You said his attitude set the tone

His attitude was a disgrace

Salford wanted it more, more than who? JUST HASTINGS?



So why no post on the other co tributing factors?

Smith's tackling

Lams coaching/substitutions/tactical decisions?

Poor.kicking game.and general bad end to sets which 5/6 players need to accept responsibility for



I'll say my final words on the subject



Whether Hastings celebrated in the way you did or didnt want him to.

Whether hastings talking about his former club and showing respect, too much respect

Etc

Then IMO made NO difference to the 80mins of the game.



"If" French gets the ball and we go 20 -8 up we win and No such thread about Hastings exists



"If" Smith makes that simple one on one tackle the same



"If" hankinson kicks that goal at 14- 2 then maybe even the same.



If Powell passes the ball, or IMO shouldnt have had his hands in the ball in that situation. Then the same

"If" whilst already one natural forward short due to Isa playing centre we dont bring another forward off and put another pivot on and we hand the forward momentum to Salford (who made.somthing like 500mtrs.more than us 2nd half) then the same.



And I'm not having that hastings saying nice words about Salford (just like Lam would have said or anyone else if asked about salford) had any effect on Wigans performance or the performance of other players.

If it did then youd need to ask the other players and coaches why they were so unprofessional as to let them effect it or not kick him up the backside if he wasnt doing or performing in the way he should.



I agree attitude/desire etc play big parts in success, whilst maybe not ideal it can be difficult to play against former clubs etc.

But to use that as the foundation for ay blame.for a single result, whilst ignoring dozens of other factors which IMO are more deep rooted st the club is unfair.



Our success or.lsck of this year will be dictated far.more bu those dozen other issues than whether Hastings still has a soft spot for Salford

This one is pure comedy.

Deary me. There's always one embarrassing fan for every club.



Hastings will always love Salford. They saved his career, and in particular Watson and Blease. He lives with his best mate in Salford, who still plays for Salford. Blease is a neighbour, and he has his tea around at Blease's once a week. Hastings own family are very close with people at Salford. He got us to a GF and won Man of steel off the back of all this.



He's a professional though. He's a winner. He'll always give his all for the team he plays for. The OP here is making themselves look like a jealous teenager who's obsessed with their current partners ex.



Hastings will bleed for Wigan, but it doesn't mean he'll turn his back on extended family.

Agree

Other than the embarrassing fan comment; I completely agree.

Agreed

There have been some embarassing threads on here but this is the best. What on earth is the thread starter on about lmao

Do you remember that time Shaun Wane was laughing and joking about losing a game?? No me neither.

Why do the Wigan public boo Sam Tomkins and Josh Charnley??

Wakefield away when we lost 62 0.

Not sure what you mean by that, but you and everyone else knows that day was ridiculous. If he was laughing then it would have been the incredulous nature of the circumstances surrounding that day.



A defeat like that on Friday in those circumstances under Wane and you know for a fact what he would have been like.



I'm not one for calling for coaches heads, I think it was Nicky Kiss who mentioned that I tend to be one of the more patient types of fans.

But there are lots of things I dont like about Lam, not enough for me to want him sacked yet, but when people mention unproffesionalism aka the Hastings thread and blame players when the coach should be the single most important person setting those cultures then I will highlight it.



Early last year Lam criticised 3/4 different sets of people for losses, including senior players, nee players etc. And then I remember after the loss at Saints he said we did well until we went back to our old way of playing, referencing Wane imo, what was that way of playing? Winning?



At no point have I heard him talk about getting stuck into players, working harder at training, himself needing to work harder etc.



A couple of times this year weve been interviewed for TV and my mate BFUT in one pulled the pants down of a player, and in another was kicking a ball at Zak hadaker.

No way on earth does that happen under Wane IMO.



So that's were I don't buy into the Hastings bashing as such and anything to do with him being to ball.e for that loss.

IMO theres dozens of other things we need to be focussing on before worrying about whether a player shows too much respect to his old club in an interview.

Heres one from Lam from Friday

“We were fortunate enough to play tonight and give the fans the chance to watch the game, because who knows in the next month where we’re going to be.

“[uThat’s why the performance was really important for us and to win, just in case we don’t play another game for a couple of weeks[/u



And???

He was laughing in the box with several others. Didn't go down well with some but as you say different circumstances.

And another



A length of field Niall Evalds try - one of two four-pointers for the Red Devils’ all-time top Super League try scorer on the night - was a key turning point in the second half, and Lam hopes to see his side cutting out the intercepts that have led to a number of similar scores so far this season.



[u“For the fifth or sixth week in a row, we go for the grubber and they go full length of the field,” he reflected. “It’s happening to us every week. We threw two intercepts last week, one a couple of weeks before that, the kick intercept tonight; I think a little bit of bad luck went against us there.”[/u



So it's just bad luck?

Were not going to do anything about it?

I commented 10mins before half time that wed had sloppy/unorganised and poor ends to 5 of the last 6 sets.



2nd half we do same thing again and have 3 or 4 bad ends to sets. Not just bad kicks as such, bad unorganised ends to sets.



1st game of season theres fans cheering because Tony Clubb chips on last and we get a repeat set.

What the F*** is he doing with ball in hand on last?



Budgie makes an 80 yard break and Marshall picks the ball up against 11/12 men and runs it directly to the only player Wire have back, we had no idea what to do!



Other examples in other games that led to last week against HKR 3 or 4 similar things happening and bad ends to sets or intercepts.



1st half we kicked 3/4 times really unorganised as if we didnt know what we were doing and ending up with Farrell kicking at one point, opposition get ball back and 1 tackle later they're 30/40/50 yards downfield. No control to end of sets.



2nd half at one point we end up going blind to Willie Isa!!!



We switch Isa who's right sided to left centre, why not Move Hankinson there? Let Isa continue on right.



And Lams answer is



"It’s happening to us every week. We threw two intercepts last week, one a couple of weeks before that, the kick intercept tonight; I think a little bit of bad luck went against us there"



No it's not bad luck, it's bad coaching and organisation

And he "Hopes" better be more like theyll be working damn hard to fix it!!!!! Not hoping it sorts itself out and rely on luck going our way.

Completely and utterly different circumstances

If Lam played Friday with 1/10th of the issues Wane had that day id maybe cut him some slack.



10 plus of those players that day if not more shouldnt have played.

As you've said privately (text) Wane said he wasn't worried and knew where we were, he was right, we won the GF.



The fans that were peed off maybe had no idea of the issues going on that week (I had a call on the Friday saying they couldn't see how game was going to go ahead there were that many going down sick), and I knew Sunday morning how bad the situation was and that the gamenshouldnt go ahead.

I think you told me about 20 minutes before the teams came out what the situation was and it was obvious the afternoon we were in for.



You're quite right that Wane wouldn't have been sharing a joke with the opposing coach after Friday, but I've sort of mellowed slightly now in terms of reacting to what coaches say and do in the press/public eye after what was said/done that season as well as other things.



It's all about what they do behind closed doors and how we as a team improve, which again you are right in saying that under Lam it just isn't. I would say that half the tries we have conceded this season have been directly from mistakes such as poor kicks, interceptions, forcing the ball. It should be fixed in training but doesn't appear to be.

Jukesy, the posts are getting longer and longer. There's no way I can respond to all your post. On the strawman argument though, I apologised in case I was being condescending. There was no need as you actually don't understand a strawman argument. None of the ones you posted are examples. Telling you that I think something isn't putting words in your mouth. So when I say *I* can't believe something it isn't the same as telling you *you* don't believe it. You understand? (I won't do the same for the rest of your examples but if you apply the same criteria you'll be able to work it out for yourself).



As for me commenting on a thread I entitled 'Hastings' solely about Hastings, again I'll leave you to work out the logic for that one yourself. Had I entitled it "the match" or "the loss" and only mentioned Hastings, then maybe you'd have a point. Again, I fully realise there were other factors in the loss, all of which have been fully discussed in other threads. This was specifically regarding my opinion that giving the opposition too much respect is not a good way to go into a match and, again in my opinion, is both a contributory factor in the loss and not acceptable. I also think making the entire match about your love in with your former club is disrespectful. Did Sarginson do the same? It was his first game against Wigan too but I didn't see the gushing 'I love Wigan' things that we saw from Hastings. Similarly I didn't see them from Bibby. You can disagree all you want but I would have liked to have seen Hastings take a similar approach to Sarginson. Go out, put in your best performance and leave any praise for AFTER the match.



It's just my opinion. Nothing will change it and my hope is the next time we meet Salford we'll see Jackson Hastings put them to the sword in the way we all know he's capable of doing.

What was your opinion on the try that Hastings scored?

I didnt say they were "straw man arguments", and didnt use them as examples.

I gave other examples of where other things could affect the outcome of a game far more than someone playing against a former club and saying nice words about them.



Your stance seems to be that Hastings respect for his former club means one or more of the following.



A/he didnt want to win as much

B/by speaking about them in nice ways it affected his performance

C/it affected everyone else's performance

Plus others



Top line IMO is, Rubbish

People can show respect and still want to win 100% for those 80mins

If other team mates didnt try as hard because they didnt like someone saying a nice thing about an opposition team then theyd better take a long hard look at themselves and not Jackson Hastings.

There are dozens of other issues FAR MORE IMPORTANT than if Hastings still respects or saysbnothings about Salford, his former coach and their fans.



And if you want to raise a thread about this and ignore the other factors then thats up to you. Not seen one person agree with it and trust me, I've run teams and coached and managed teams, and I understand how much the little 1%s matter.

But I also know theres a lot more 1%s out there (or bigger %s) creating bigger issues atm than this one.

Fix them first, as they were far more relevant to Fridays defeat than this.

Mate, there's plenty agree with it. Because a few people on here don't, doesn't mean diddly squat.



You say ignore this 1 per because there are others that need fixing. Can I assume that, even after all your squabbling, you do in fact agree that this is a 1 per then? In which case why are you even arguing? I agree there's other things to fix up. That doesn't mean that any that YOU deem less worthy, shouldn't even be mentioned. I think it's more important than you clearly do. Why? Maybe I attach more significance to attitude than you do. That's fine. People see things differently. I'm sure Sean Wane had a different approach towards attitude than, say, Adrian Lam has. Each to their own.



Yes, I do think it had all 3 effects you mention above. Did it stop him having the same ruthless approach to the game he would have had against someone other than Salford? Yes I do. Do I think his approach affected his performance? Yes I do. The statistics posted elsewhere support this view. Do I think the fact that our main playmaker not being at his best permeated the rest of the team? Yes I do. Whether it should or not is another argument.



It's fine that you, as you put it, think it's rubbish. My opinion is that you thinking a player's approach and attitude going into a game doesn't have an effect on his performance is rubbish too. I would argue that no professional sports coach or player would agree with you. In fact, how many times have you heard professionals use the line "we showed them too much respect" as an explanation as to why they lost? Games are won and lost in the top 3 inches as the saying goes. This game was as good an example as any I've ever seen.



IMO of course.

If that is true, why were we 12 points up at the break and why did Hastings score a try himself? He would have caught and passed, took the tackle or dropped the ball rather than beat two men and drag two over to score would he not?



The actual fact is, in the 2nd half our forwards got battered and we made some dumb mistakes.



Hanks missed kick, Powell's crap grubber, Smith's missed tackle and countless dumb penalties all had f*ck all to do with the fact Hastings didn't celebrate and loves Salford as a club

That's a few times now you have spoke sense, it won't catch on with this thread.

Mate, I'm not saying he didn't play at all! I'm saying it affected his performance. You could equally ask why he only took roughly half the carries he would normally and why he had next to no impact for the majority of the game...so why aren't you? I see you were quick to jump on the stats on the other thread when you thought they supported your view but have been awfully quiet once it was pointed out that they actually supported the opposite view.



Try to take an overall view of the game and then argue you thought he was at his best. If you can't (which I'm assuming would be the case) ask yourself why? Do you think his mindset going into the game might have had an impact? If not why not? I know that you've thought this of other players from your previous posts so (if not) why not in this case?