He did. It was something like him waxing lyrical about him and somebody asked if he could get to the level of an O’Loughlin and he commented that he felt he was already past it (or words to that affect).

I rate Knowles very highly but it was a ridiculous comment, that ridiculous I’m not sure if he was being serious or not (although I think he probably was).

**Edit** just watched that bit again and he’s definitely not joking. Will Perry asks if Knowles has the talent to surpass O’Loughlin and says yes and then adds that he’s there already. He said he can do everything O’Loughlin could do and is just as skilful. He is the new Phil Clarke

Did Knowles even play?

Deary me. Here's an idea. Watch some rugby. Learn what it's all about then come back when you actually know something about the game. Lees can't bust his way out of a paper bag these days and LMS is a never has been. Havard is in demand from the NRL. The closest LMS will ever get to it is watching it on TV.

Take a time out mate. You're making a fool of yourself.

of course Knowles could be as good as Lockers if-
He could control a game
He could change a game like Lockers
If he could change position and be as good
if could get the respect of the Aussies
If he could pull out passes only a true legend could
Captain England
Every coach rate him as one of the best players in super league and that he would walk in any club Aussie clubs included.
So yes he could be as good but as Knowles cannot do that as of yet and probably will not the answer would be a NO,not as good never will be.
Havard will be better than Knowles

Watched it again couldnt see Knowles so googled his name all I got was- Missing In Action !!

the thing i took out of the game was the way we closed it out, after taking the lead. Looked like a level of maturity thats building, and if anything we were most likely to score again. Thats what impressed me as much as the way we dominated the 1st half

I don't want to derail a thread by talking about Saints but given this is a Team against Saints thread, I thought it would be better going in here

FWIW, Knowles isn't as good as SOL or Sculthorpe and is some distance off both to be fair. Completely different type of player. I actually think he has been relatively poor this season overall and I'm not quite sure what the reasons are, he seems to be playing less of a ball handling role like the past two seasons and more of a tackling machine and taking drives.

On a different note we are now seeing our worst fears coming home to roost. We went heavy on the salary cap with our halves and we all knew that these were the positions where we had little or no depth. To give Wigan some credit they go the other way and ensure that they always have cover in the halves and will go weaker in the forwards in terms of the cap. Smith, Leulaui, Cust, Field and French can all play in the halves.

We have been extremely unlucky though to have two long term injuries to Lomax and Dodd. I know that Lomax is playing but at what long term cost and at what percentage is he playing to his maximum, only time will tell.

Personally I think Bell will move into the halves and that will be the plan for the season. The only other feasible option is to move Welsby there with or without Lomax and play Bennison at FB which is his natural position. However he is still a young inexperienced lad who has not played many first team games at all. It's a big risk in such a pivotal position.

What’s your thoughts on Lomax playing on? Surely better to get him fully sorted and ready for the back end?

The injury problems Hopoate is suffering aren’t helping Saints. If you could put him in at fullback full time and Welsby in the halves full time, then it would be a no brainer to get Lomax sorted IMO.

I don't understand the decision at all. By protecting him last week it changed our game plan and we suffered. He's a tough lad but I would guess he was at 60% of his max.

I'm wondering if and when Hopoate is fit if they will do what you suggest and decide to get the op done then. It was interesting at Woof's press confernce last week that he took responsibility for bringing Hopoate back too soon so they will definitely air on the side of caution with him now. I don't think he is a great signing at all but he has played FB in both the NRL and for Tonga so can clearly play there. Moreover he was never injury prone in the NRL so he's been a bit unlucky too with first his ribs and now hamstring.

However even if Welsby plays in the halves he still needs someone to partner him and we have no real first choice back up.

Surely Lomax's pectoral injury is only minor, I mean nobody plays with one that's torn these days. Liam Farrell suffered one in 2019 and was out for over four months. Thornley was out even longer back in 2014.

If Lomax is suffering with only a minor pectoral injury there's a massive chance he could aggravate it even further during game time, surely best to rest it now for a few weeks to see if it heals. However I'm sure the Saints medical department know what they're doing.

It’s a torn bicep not pectoral.

It’s his bicep mate. He’s ruptured it and it sounds similar to Kane Linnett. He played at the weekend as well, lasted 20 minutes and did more damage to it and has no choice but to get the op now. Maybe the Lomax one isn’t as serious but he didn’t look comfortable. Saints attack never really blows teams apart from all over the field anyway but it’s going to be clunky for as long as they need to keep protecting Lomax by shuffling things around.

I'm no medical expert but from what Woolf said, all the muscles around it are intact and strong so he has less chance of making it worse. I think there is a possibility that it will naturally reattach itself however IMO we are messing with his health here and he should get it fixed ASAP even if he is out for months.

I agree with your final point, I'm just hoping that Bell can improve this with a good run of games. He's a very good player and as I say someone that Wigan looked at very closely last year too.

Just had a conversation with someone who's just said bicep. Oops. Still a potential major injury like.

Woolf's not playing with it though!!!! It is shear madness especially with the World Cup coming up. The lad will be having painkilling injections to play, that cannot be good for his long-term health. Mr Woolf, where is your duty of care now, is what I would be asking rather than trying to justifying his actions.

Woolf is ruthless in the way Michael Maguire was. I laughed last week in the build up to the semi when Saints fans were saying Lomax must be fine if he’d been named in the squad as Woolf is so ‘honest and straight up’

He named Grace in the squad so we could all play a guessing game. They’re now admitting Grace won’t be back for another couple of weeks. We won’t get any honesty on the lack of Saints overseas players involved in the mid season international either.

I’ve no issue with how he goes about his business, he’s selfish and looks after Saints and Saints only but I did chuckle at those lines.

It's madness playing Lomax and a decision I believe they'll regret. Worse still, it's one that England's world cup hopes will suffer for. Conflict of interest from the Tongan coach anyone?

Stu, what's your opinion on Havard not getting in the Saints team ahead of Lees or LMS?

I like him. I've waxed lyrical on him on here as being the nearest thing I've seen to Luke Thompson in terms of engine, footwork etc. I think he will be NRL bound though. I'd have him before Lees and LMS in a squad.

Byrne has come on leaps and bounds for you too. I know he really suffered with Covid and struggled with it for a long time afterwards but he seems to be getting some form now.

From what I'm hearing though Harvey Hill could be even better.

Byrne has probably been our most consistent prop this year. He really seems to be relishing doing the tough stuff. It was noticeable that he'd been tasked with keeping Walmsley quiet in that first stint and it worked really well.

It seems to be a foregone conclusion that Havard will end up in the NRL unfortunately. I just hope he stays another 2 or 3 years before considering the move, both for our sake and his. The comparison with Thompson is a good one. He could go over now and probably hold his own but with a couple more years development he could go across and take it by storm (no pun intended!).

There are a few forwards who look the business coming through the ranks at Wigan currently. Hill being one of them. Academy to first team is always a bit of an unknown but if the majority make the transition we're looking at a very strong pack going forward.

Not sure what they feed them but it was noticeable in the Wigan v Saints U16s game that I watched that Wigan had a much bigger physical team.

Just to add some credibility to the Saints fans on here and to prove we aren't biased idiots, I'll 2nd this. Havard is not only a fantastic long-term prospect but already a very good player. He would be in a full strength Saints 17 for sure.

I always exempt yourself, Stu and FTV from the numpties we occasionally get on her. You come at things from a Saints perspective, which is as it should be, but there's balance too and usually a good debate to be had.

What's your view on playing Lomax?

Thanks for that,you and a couple more are not biased idiots by a long way.

I'm no medical expert so I can't say Woolf is right or wrong when he says the injury can't be made worse. However I am confident they wouldn't put him at risk, so it's a case of having to take their word for it in terms of the moral side of things.

As for the rugby side of things, if Lomax can play to 80% of his potential he is still our best option (and better than most in the league) so again for the time being I'm happy to trust their judgement. 1 game isn't enough to judge, especially a game like last week. But if the time comes where he's a passenger or even a liability within the team, I'm sure the club would act accordingly. I think Dodd being injured probably forces their hand a bit, I'm not naive to pretend otherwise. If he was fit then it would be "easier" to let Lomax have surgery and recover in his own time. But being down 2 half backs would spell the end of our season so I can understand why they are keen for him to play on and why he himself is so keen to play on too.

To be honest I don't think Lomax is the issue for us now. It's what we do alongside him. It shows how we much we are lacking an obvious replacement for Dodd when you read the various opinions on who should replace him. Welsby, Davies, Bell, Hopoate, Roby, Lussick even Sironen all been mentioned. That's the biggest conundrum for Saints now, who plays alongside Lomax to get the best out of the team and give us the best shot of winning another GF.