He'd be cr@p, simple as that. Zero structure, motivation or guidance etc.

Let's not forget this is a guy that coached a team with 2x MOS winners and a Daly M 2nd row of the year, but couldn't get them to score a single try Vs Leeds.

We were poor to watch in 2020 though and had it not been for moments of brilliance from French would have lost a lot of games that we narrowly won. You may say that is no different to now, but everything about watching us is better than it was under Lam. The same pack that we have now (minus Ellis and Mago) got battered week in and week out last season, but this season it is dominating more often than not which is seeing the likes of Harry Smith finally show what he is capable of.

We have put sides to the sword a few times this season and we never did that apart from playing a 12 man Leigh.

He will point to bad luck (he has) but that doesn't explain some of his team selections and some of the performances we put in under him especially in big games. (See performances against Leeds and Hull in the cup 2020/2021 compared to our cup displays this season)

We were on about the absence of Field and French at the game on Friday gone and the general thoughts were that had Lam had those two in his side last year, we’d have scored more points, won a few more games but still not won a trophy. We just couldn’t win big games under him. You clearly know more than me about what went on behind the scenes but just on face value, on the field, he just couldn’t seem to get improvements out of hardly any of the players and that wasn’t just in 2021.

On the plus side for Lam, I presume he played a fair part in getting French and Field here, so he’s certainly left behind some quality, that is really helping us at the moment.

Don't get me wrong he was hard work and without going into details with a bunch of strangers on here he made some daft decisions. But the fact remains that he was without two superstars. As good as Woolf is as a coach, how would we have gone this season with no Welsby or Lomax all season when you look at their stats and creativity?

Also I can't stress enough how Harry Smiths confidence was shattered last season with Hastings alongside him. Its why he looks a completely different player now, free of any shackles.

I just feel that Lam gets a raw deal overall. And for all the big game comments, Holbrook only won one big game at Saints and that was against Salford in the GF. We lost a CC Final, a CC semi final and a play off game under him. With Woolf I always feel we will never lose a big game (obviously we do!)

You also had the blueprint to beat us at the end of 2020. You beat us convincingly at Langtree towards the end of the season (I'll always call it that name) and as I said earlier, inches away from wininng that GF.

With all due respect, I fully disagree.

It's easy to paint it as bad luck, but he did sweet FA with the talent he did have fit. Zak, Hastings, Faz, Bateman spring to mind. I then look at the post Lam improvements of Byrne, Smith, Marshall too. I'm not saying that we should have won the league or anything, but it was criminal how little he got out of the lads. Every player has gone up 20/30% since he left and that's not a coincidence imo.

I look at the Salford side that took us to the cleaners in his 1st season and the side we had was better on paper imo. The difference was a game plan and actual coaching etc.

I watched the Saints v Hudds match after I got back from our game on Friday - Lam was the guest and he made the point that he was 'instrumental' in bringing French and Field in. Probably understandable for him to make that point even if it did come across slightly as sour grapes.

He also fast tracked Havard and Byrne into the first team - we're benefitting from that now. I thought we looked a really good team at times in 2020.

On the flip side there was no excusing what happened last year. The worst year of rugby entertainment Iv ever watched since I started supporting Wigan in 1993. The first time Iv ever switched over and watched Coronation Street. The players weren't happy at all and Peet has been key in getting the morale of the group right again. Some of his comments in the 2nd half of 2021 were borderline delusional and certainly wound me up at the time.

Great player for us - let's just stick with that.

Mate I agree that Peet has done a good job, he's clearly getting the best out of players. I just think that Lam wasn't as bad as he is made out to be that's all.

I just cant see how that was the case tho? We failed to score Vs Leeds, despite having a half decent team out. Hastings bossed the league at Salford, but didn't do anything of note under Lam. He had Niall Evans at FB at Salford FFS and had Zak at FB at Wigan but did absolutely nothing.

Two things I believe he got right, Field signing and Lam was always bullish of how good and fast he was. Ball playing amongst the young forwards, they all offer a pass and off load.

On the other side he oversaw some of the most soul destroying displays that I have ever witnessed, he turned the experience of watching RL into the sort of torture the Geneva convention outlawed.

I can’t even give Lammy too much credit for the young forwards getting games. The likes of Byrne, Havard and Smithies got their chances, of course they did, but he flogged them to bits at times and he could really have damaged their careers. Thankfully they seem to be coming out the other side now.

We've scored about 170 pts more already than we did in the entirety of last season when we were the only team to fulfil every fixture, that speaks volumes, whatever happens between now and the end of the season we can't complain about the entertainment on offer

Lam opted to take the 2 when we were 6 points down against Saints in a home game.

Went on to lose 26-2, dreadful spineless coach.

Lam great player less so being a coach,
I like it when you point out You take French an Field out we dont score as much you take welsby out and you Poss dont win the final,you Take Marshall out we dont beat you lot in semi and win final,you take Tommy out we dont win the final as he stated the last play you take Batchelor out you dont win the Derby in other words it is irrelevant all this if they dont play scenario as they did and it would pan out differently but we will never know the outcome.
All I know is Peet has got this team playing some brilliant rugby ,Lam didnt. And I believe we are as good as Saints if not better as the only trophy up for grabs we have and we beat Saints on our way.Lets just see how this season pans out who ever wins the Grand Final will be the best team this year.

You are not better than us just because you won a knockout game. However I will admit the gap is closing and closing quicker with all the disruption we have had this season to key players - Dodd season ender in April, Hopoate barely played, Makinson a month, Percival 3 months, Grace 4 months, Lomax playing through a bad injury, Matautia 2 months, LMS a month. The list goes on and that's without the suspensions. For us still to be 4 points clear at the top is a testament to our resilience and competitive nature.

If you split the 3 games we've played this season against you and split it into minutes, how many would you say of those that you were the better team? I'd give you 20 mins on Good Friday, 40 in the semi final and 30 at Magic. That's a lot of minutes where we were dominant across the 3 games. That's 150 mins for us and 90 mins for you.

Of course that's just my opinion.

Have Saints had injuries this season? Nobody mentioned it.

That Magic performance is the one that has encouraged me the most. We were really poor that day (I know you were missing key players, we were missing a few also), but still looked the much better team. Saints were pretty blunt with the amount of ball they had; I'd love to see the stats of the game in terms of territory and possession etc. Yes, Saints are rightly favourites for future meetings and the GF, which I am pretty sure, will be contested between the two sides, but the gap is closing at a fair old rate.

Great debate though, keep it coming!

You thought you were the better team at Magic? Interesting. I did feel you defended superbly in that first 20 mins to be fair, we had a lot of possession and didn't really look like scoring.

Our attack has looked blunt at times due to the constant changes. Missing Makinson and Percival has affected us more so on the kick returns and getting us on the front foot.

We are as good if not better as we have won the only trophy on offer.
Now, we have had missing this season,French,Cust,Tommy,Ellis,Powell,Thornley Singleton,etc etc etc .
If you split the 3 games -2 wins to Saints 1 win to Wigan on our way to winning the final ,you get 4 points we get a trophy-that is why we are better this season so far if you win the final you are rightly the best team this season if we win we would have won the double maybe the treble and rightly we would be the best team this season.
Of course this is my opinion but based on fact.

You have had a better season so far in that you have a trophy and we don't. That doesn't mean you have been the better team so far. There is a big difference there.

Quite shocked at this. I thought territorially we battered you personally and said this on here after the game. In terms of metres made on the day we were over 400m more than you for example (despite you scoring from two long range breaks from Field and french too). We also made more carries and you made more tackles. So in terms of both possession and territory we were on top. You were forever finishing sets in your own half. We were camped in your half for the start of the game but I don't recall us being under the pump on our line for long spells.

What you do have though is that "X-factor" that we don't have. In Field and French you have players who can literally score from anywhere on the field and they've proven that time and again (including at Magic).

I think games between the two sides will follow similar patterns for the time being. We will get on top in the middle and win the field position battle and try and pick off our chances when they come. Whereas Wigan will almost accept they will get less field position but they'll know they can burn us from anywhere on the field.

It's a real contrasting battle of styles and it could go either way when we meet up again.

Makinson has played more games than French
Dodd has played more games than Leuluai
Hopoate and Percival have played more games than Thornley
Matautia has played more games than Pearce-Paul

You know I respect you as a poster
Stu but that is utter garbage. The most Saints-centric post you ever put on here. You had a 10 minute spell in the semi. The rest of the game was either even or comfortably ours. Go and watch it again and take your RedVee specs off. Magic you only won because of the sending off. Don't point to you beating Huddersfield as some mitigation that wasn't the case as that's a completely different game. You were 2 minutes from losing that game and never lead throughout. Good Friday I'll give you.

I agree we have had a better season so far this must mean we are a better team so far,you won the first derby easily enough but you lost the first game game that really would mean anything then you won the last derby in the last seconds I would say we are better this season so far as you have agreed we are having a better season so far.