I have to say that those who feel the Warriors part of the name has failed are living in their own bubble (topical reference for you there!) I know from introducing my son to the club that supporters new to the game tend to refer to the club by using the Warriors epithet just as much as they do the Wigan part.

Quote ="post"Can you put a picture of said badge and kits please?'" https://facebook.com/matthainessport/po ... 6104582552

Quote ="post"Can you put a picture of said badge and kits please?'" https://facebook.com/matthainessport/po ... 6104582552

It's huge!!

Fair enough. I don’t think he was paying too much attention to the brief, to be honest. Think he was just doing it for his own amusement more than anything, although he does state somewhere that he has done designs for other clubs.

Haha, yeah as big as some sponsors!

I've been thinking quite extensively about this since the weekend and on reflection its not the change that saddens me anymore its more about the execution of the product and an awareness that this was really a momentous decision..

I knew that the change was coming - Ive been aware for it for months. If I'm honest I'd forgotten it was "still on the go".

On reflection for me personally I shouldn't have watched the heritage video which I loved because I'm in my element embellished in club nostalgia. I think one or two people criticised the technical quality of the product which I couldn't even start to comment on but I thought the content and ethos was first class. I never give 10 out of 10 but I'd give it a strong 9. The emotion of all the history and what defines Wigan ending with a badge that looked like a blob of red was a bit of a roller coaster.

I don't like the new badge. Its too cluttered, too much cherry red, too bland, too much like a plethora of other badges and for me looks amateurish. There's nothing special or unique about it other than we have a "Warrior" who I don't think anyone has given any positive feedback on either on here or other social media outlets. It doesn't matter what I think and I'm fully aware of that and have zero issues or problems with those who like and embrace it. I haven't seen or heard of people embracing the new badge but maybe that will come with time. In terms of uniqueness I suspect that this doesn't really matter at the moment but for me if we are making such major changes I would have preferred

I'm still unsure as to the major reason for the change.
Was it predominantly SL or Sky TV pressure?
The cost of production piece I can sort of understand to a degree. Poor quality of the A&L on various platforms has zero impact on me personally but can to a degree understand this argument. To these 2 arguments I could argue the New Zealand Siver Fearn probably has the same issues but the chances of the All Blacks jettisoning this iconic symbol is less than zero.
A combination of the above and perhaps the need to reboot the brand is where I think we are but still unsure. If I'm interpreting it correctly then the brand is The Warriors but unsure what Ancient & Loyal represents on the badge?

I placated myself in that they will bring back A&L in 2022 which I think somewhere I have seen there will be some sort of heritage game where the A&L badge will be used. Although I've been pontificating and stating categorically that this will not maybe but will occur I now think that this would be wrong.

In the last day or so I have come to the conclusion that If we are to go through this pain and for me when the penny finally dropped that the Ancient & Loyal has been consigned to history I felt a little surreal so for me it is pain albeit not in a physical sense, then let's do this thoroughly and not half heartedly.

In the video where KR went through the rationale for the change and the process involved at one point he stated that IL wanted to be more bold and now I've thought it through IL is probably right. He will be fully aware of the pain and cost and probably thinks if we are going to do this then lets do once and get it done with. I think the problem is that with the new badge it wont be once and I think that it will quickly be refreshed as quickly as conscience will allow. In the future I suspect we will drop the Ancient & Loyal (in hindsight should not have been retained) and revamp the "Warrior".
I thought that KR was very good in the videos and certainly from a presentational point of view he is growing into his role admirably. Obviously a well rehed piece but still delivered with great professionalism.

For me if this rebrand it to work we need to stop looking backwards and continually look forward. Mixed message of Ancient & Loyal and Warriors to me just doesn't work and gives a confusing message.We need to stop referring to The Wigan Way and use The Warrior Way. All press briefings need to refer to The Warriors. If we really believe in The Warriors then the use of Wigan as the feature on the majority if not all marketing should be dropped. We should be advising Sky that during commentaries and any news updates then we should be referred to as The Warriors.
City, United, 49'rs, Jets, The Storm, The Broncos, Raiders, Chiefs...…. The Warriors

I suspect that if we do not do this then we will have had the heartache of major fundamental changes without the expected/targeted benefits.

Do I like the badge? No
Will it stop me buying club products? No
Stop me going to games? No
Can I get used to it? Yes

That’s what it boils down to. We all knew, as much as we’d rather not, that the club crest wasn’t going to last as was forever. To be a success a business has to be adapting constantly which is what we have done. I’m all for nostalgia and tradition, in certain aspects of my life (work especially) I’m murder for it. I much prefer the badge designed with the castle and crown in the middle and would rather we drop the “Warriors” tag and roll with “Wigan RLFC”.

But we’ve had it for over 20yrs now. There’s fans of ours of an adult age who’s never known us as anything else who’s feel just as strongly as we do on the opposing side. We’re all not going to be here in 70/80years time (I hope we are!) and to ensure our club is we’ve got to keep moving forward.

I trust IL and KR to make decisions that benefit the club, they’ve had far more right than they have wrong. Look back to where we were before with Uncle Mo and DW and it’s worlds apart. We’ve shored up and made solid foundations to build the club on, consistently competitive on and off the pitch and attract the worlds finest players.

I don’t like the badge. But I love my club and the direction it’s going on, I’m going along with it.

As 100% says above, I'm more interested in the club than the badge. I sort of wish they'd gone about it by engaging the fans more in the first instance but it's not the be all and end all. Pity it overshadowed the derby win and the French signing though.

Yes businesses need to change with the times, but not change for change sake and not change things that don't need changing. I don't like the Warriors tag but its been around long enough now and Im ok with it. A modernisation of the badge would be fine as a sideline, to run alongside the proper badge but this particular badge is naff at best.

The thing is I don’t disagree, you certainly won’t see me cheering it. It could have been done better or had more of a fan involvement but it’s done and dusted. We all now need to move on. It’s a huge week for the club and some rather unexpected silverware on offer (even if it’s just the hub cap). This week and coming weeks are huge for us as a club, for one the results will dictate Lam’s fate.

The badge with the castle is 10 times better than the White Walker badge, IIRC our badge was just a castle when shown on BBC in the mid 90s.

Our crest badge has been hard won and hard fought for and earned over hundreds of years. It wasn't dreamt up in a boardroom by someone who knows his way round photoshop, ours has history and was created piecemeal by Royals/Kings and we should be proud of that. I couldn't give a toss if the bloke from a kit designers thinks its too much hard work, then tough. Its who we are.

You've boycotted the club. What do you care.

By the time you come back when every player that knelt has left, we might have changed it back.

True, by that time our badge will have Kelvin the gorrila either side insted of Lions and the Edwards Pie man instead of the Castle.

Now that's a design I could get behind!

Again, completely agree. The warrior (or white Walker) just looks tacky to me. The castle helps modernise the badge whilst also nodding to our heritage. Much like the Wigan Athletic badge does for them or the Man City badge for them.

Strangely, I seem to be warming to it after the initial horror.

I showed the new logo to my kids (5 & 6) they both love it.

After the initial shock I am starting to warm to it too, however I do think its the lack of wider consultation with all supporters which is part of the reason it has disappointed so many people.

Supporters should be made to feel part of the journey but it seems only a select few have been invited to share their views, people feel excluded enough at the moment.

What the reaction has shown is that we have a lot of analogue fans in a digital world - which was kind of the club's reasoning for the change.

I work in the digital world.

That badge is e

I thought we were living in a ma-ma-material world?

This is the final thing against it - it's just not very good, lazy design.

As a general design, the castle on the crest badge looks good but the whole point of the exercise is for the badge to identify with ‘Warriors.’

Leeds Rhinos have a rhino on their badge, Castleford Tigers a tiger, Catalan Dragons a dragon and Warrington Wolves a wolf.

There would be no logic at all for us to redesign our badge and have a castle as the main part of it. It’s got to be a warrior.

Dallas Cowboys are one of the most recognisable brands in sport. They don't have a cowboy.

If you can't market Wigan Rugby League Football Club with all of our history and achievements then you're in the wrong game. By all means keep the Warriors name, but that is aimed at kids, let's be honest. By all means market the name to them and stick 'Warriors' on every childs item, but if you need some clip art drawing to market this club then like I say, you're in the wrong game.

Exactly, it's not about attracting more younger people as you do that by having a team who are successful, a good squad of players and a better public relations with your supporters as well as consultations with supporters when you are going to make major decisions to alter the club badge and re-brand the club. Surely, it is obvious that in a Rugby mad town like Wigan, the decision is more about it being cheaper to produce replica shirts and other clothing with the new badge than what it has been to produce the more expensive Ancient & Loyal badge.

Perhaps, it would have been more acceptable to supporters if the Ancient & Lodge badge was to be kept on the playing/replica shirts, Coats, training gear etc with the the new badge on other leisure ware. I can see the point of younger supporters not wanting to go out at night wearing a item of clothing with the Ancient & Loyal badge on it.

The club in its defence has said that it has consulted supporters on the matter, but how many season ticket holders, especially those have never asked for a refund of this season's ticket were consulted.

I have been a supporter for fifty years and a season ticket holder for more or less the same time, but nobody at the club ever made contact with me.

All very well, but what happens if all the clubs who adopted a name of a person or animal at the start of Super League decide to follow the example of Wakefield Trinity who got rid of the Wildcat image.

As it stands at the moment, only six of the present eleven Super League clubs have got one of the new names namely Castleford Tigers, Catalan Dragons, Huddersfield Giants, Leeds Rhinos, Warrington Wolves and Wigan Warriors. I have not included Salford as they have always been known as the Red Devils long before it was added to the name of the club.

If that happens it will mean another new badge, which would not be the case with the Ancient & Loyal badge.