Partington's metres per carry was better than Isa, Byrne, Shorrocks & Smithies. And was only slightly less than Bateman's.

Is that maybe going to be a bit easier once he's a little older and more established? I know some players like Partington and Smithies did it from their debut but Havard might need to settle in before coming out of his shell.

I’ll take Havard every day and on Sunday’s too over Partington and Smithies. Only Havard of those three will have a long career at the top. The other two are limited in every area. Smithies in particular needs to have a good year or he’ll just be another numbnuts in a team like Wakefield.

Gotta admit I'm a little confused on this one. Havard makes the most yards out of our pack, despite the fact he's only 20 and yet he's been labelled as a concern earlier in the thread?

If you look at the majority of the top props in the game, they are mostly level headed at the min. I can't remember the last time someone like Papalii, or Jason Taumalolo did anything other than make massive yards. That's what sets them apart imo, not the other stuff.

The so called 'mongrel' in players is a dying art, just look at the weekend headlines for Jared Waerea-Hargreaves for a perfect example.

It’s far from a concern, he’s a brilliant player. It’s simply an observation that he’s yet to show if he does have that side or not and if he does then the sky is the limit. I get your points with JT and JP but they’re hugely aggressive in defence and attack with the force they put in to their running and tackling. I’m not saying Havard should be laying cheap shots on people or starting scraps, I’m simply wondering if he’s got that instinct inside him to absolutely wallop somebody in defence and get a real enjoyment out of it, the way that you can sense somebody like Partington does. If he has that side then wow, we’ve got something very special indeed.

Harvard makes big meters but at the moment and he is a wonderful prospect but to take his game to the next level he needs to improve his contact in defence as he isn’t particularly hurtful in and also his play the ball isn’t very quick.

He makes great meters yes and is still only a baby in real terms.

Having the mongrel in them is nothing to do with what JWH did at the weekend it is being spiteful and hurtful in contact. One of his and all good Props job is to soften up a team when they have the ball.

That is the area he needs to improve, some can and do but it tends to be a thing you have naturally. I’ve not seen it yet in him.

As I mentioned Coley seemed to stagnate a little when we signed him from
Salford. He joined with a rep of being one of the gun props in the league who needed to step up, and whilst he went about his business efficiently he never developed into his full potential until Madge arrived where he added that aggressive side to his game.

Harvard needs to add that, it is one main thing lacking in his play.

He adds that and we could have a very special player on our hands.

Props at Wigan get a very easy ride. If you can be solid in defence and make 40m a game you're one of the first names on the sheet.

For years now we've flogged our back rowers and outside backs at the expense of props doing any real work.

It's embarrassing when you compare them to actual props who not only do the same work in defence but also do 3x the work with the ball.

I've said for ages what's the actual point in us even having props? Just sign a few more second rowers and play them in that position.

So what? He is down as 3 carries.

His carries are very low, but we don't know what he's been told to do or how to play.
He's the 4th highest tackler with 37. Personally I wouldn't play him at 13.

Do the stats show possession rate whilst they were on the field, if we only had 20% possession when player x was on the field then they would probably be lower than player y if we had 80% possession when y was on the field, not sure where to look for stats

Don't think they exist mate, I've never even seen a stat for minutes played, never mind who had the ball during those minutes. I do think it's forgivable for a forward to have a low number of carries if he made lots of tackles though, and vice versa.

Agree with the previously mentioned "Props get an easier ride at Wigan" For years we had backs that made 100 mtrs plus with Gelling Charnley and Sarginson. They, and other backs, made a large contribution to the squad's meters gained stat,
Now most of our backs are missing those filling their places can't and won't make those meters.
That leaves only one option and that is the props step up.
Now if we all know this then the opposition coaches will most certainly know it.
The remedy is for the coaching staff to change the tactics slightly to allow the props or meter maker more space and opportunity to gain ground.
Wakefield have some big men in their pack and their backs are hardly small either.
This game is as much a challenge for the coaching staff as the players and I'm more than certain they are capable of it.