The kicking was a big diiference, Wigan ended up giving the Giants at least a 10 meters easy yards at every kick, all the wingers and full back had to do was wait for the kicks and get their sets off to a good start.

Is our kicking game really that poor? Ok, so we find the fullback or winger. What happens then? He makes a few yards before getting knocked over by the chasers. The defensive line is then already set. If you kick to ground then your whole line HAS to move up together or a decent runner will exploit the gaps. Yes Hudds kicked to ground, but it was only a good kick because the chase was good. If our defence know that the ball is heading to the winger then they can chase accordingly.

I just dont believe that 3 different coaches would accept a so called poor kicking game. Plus, we have managed to turn teams around when need be. Saints in the GF, Saints in the league away, Wire in the cup, Leeds in the playoff semi.

If the fullback/winger receive the ball on the full they can run it straight back to us and our defence isn't set. If we find ground it takes longer for them to turn round resulting in our defence being readier (Is that a word?). It's simple really. I'd wager that none of our designated last tackle kickers kickers would be designated kickers at Huddersfield or Warrington.

Wane has highlighted our poor kicking game yesterday.

But the point im making is that only one side needs to move up. How many times did they make a break when they caught the kick on the full? The answer is none. The first defender met them 5 or 10 yards later and flattened them. The rest of the line was then set without having to needlessly sprint 50 yards.

But surely if we turn the fullback round he makes 5 or 10 yards less. You can't seriously be saying that everyone's been doing it wrong all these years and what we should be doing is kicking it straight to the fullback?

No im not saying that. I'm saying maybe that is what we are opting to do. The fact that 3 coaches have yet to change it, ok wane said it was poor but we'll see what happens, and at times we can turn teams around when need be, then perhaps it isnt as bad as you think.

You could turn a team around and not move up proper. That would make it far easier for them to break. Sam does it on a regular basis. A kick is only as good a chase as they say.

This so called poor kicking game has been going on for years at Wigan. How did we ever manage to have the best defence in the league and win 2 major trophies?

Because the defence you mentioned would hold teams out, and let us off the hook.

Let's be honest, under Madge in 2010 if we'd knock on 10m out from our own line, I'd have expected us to keep the opposition out.

A number of times our backs had to turn around and chase backwards to pick up a stationary ball close to our own line - that has to be worse than their fielding a ball on the full on their own 20 or better, which is what was happening. Even the high balls were proving tricky for us, with Pat having to make sliding catches and being still on the ground when the defenders arrrived - he did brilliantly not to drop any of those, but they were not given the same difficulties.

Other than Deacon occasionally, we've not had a kicker able to do what Brough did since Dobson was here.

Much improved today I just hope we can keep it up consistently.

Better, still could be improved

Agree. While I can only remember one hitting the ground last week, I can think of only one that didn't tonight.

There were a couple that were caught and a few that could of been better placed.

The chasers need to try and stay on their feet after kicking; a couple of times we went to ground too easy.

Considering what the players dished up tonight in comparison with last week's dross, irks me something rotten. Granted we were kicking on the front foot this time around, but a good kicking game and dominant forwards go hand in hand. You very rarely if ever see a good kicking coming from a side dominated in the forwards.

Still if I see kick's going down the throat of the fullback and wingers at Osdal next week I'm going to be mighty peeved, after seeing just how well we can kick when we set our minds to it.

For once in his life Stevo said something that is true. It is difficult to put in good kicks when you are on the back foot and being pinned down constantly. Sinfield's kicking was nulified by Leeds' poor field position.

chicken and the egg I think. Was it a good kicking game because of our forwards (mossop was a monstor) or had it improved?