Don't take it personally Cruncher, the pro-Nobleites have also failed to respond to points I and other people have raised - e.g. fitness levels, preparation and how the Cup fits into Noble's alleged end of season strategy. Lots of pretty unpleasant things have been said about those of us who simply dare to question whether Noble is the right man to take the club to the next level....

Not as I remember. I've been drawn into it a little since, but have only ever said that his unwillingness to drop players does not worry me much.

I'm trying to explain why I think Noble should be replaced - correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the main jist of this thread. And thus far, none of those who want to keep Noble seem willing or able to respond to any of my concerns - which doesn't convince me that they have a great argument (regardless of whether or not I agree with them about his unwillingness to drop players).

Cruncher

I'm not one for doing polls etc on here (Lists are more my thing! ) but I would bet if there was one and there were the :- options

1/ Noble was terrible did nothing right should have been sacked ages ago he should be strung up for holding back Wigan and has doen nothing positive

2/ Noble was terrible but let him see out his contract and then move on

3/ Noble has done a good job, but its time to move on irrespetive of whether we win GF or not

4/ Noble has been brill and should get a new contract irrespective of whether we win GF or not

NUMBER 3 would win hands down when it comes to those that are labelled as "Pro Noble"!
Whereas the Anti Noble group seem to want to do the 1st option and use a lot of Opinion dressed up as fact to try and justify it.
I just can't see why certain Anti Noble fans (And I don't label you in this as I think you are pretty fair when it comes to Noble) can't or dont want to give Noble just a Hint of credit for anything and want to make a big Shock "Sack Him" statement as we havent won anything.

I don't think many of those arguing that its time to move on think Noble has done a bad job, its just that he isn't the man to take us to the next level.

When reasons for that have been given on this thread there have been some pretty unpleasant personalised attacks on people who dare to criticise BN whether its comments like "idiot" "absolute dross" "stubborn and thick" "utter nonsense" "at least speak the truth rather than making fantasys up" or "half-truths" or allegations that Noble doubters secretly want us to lose....

That's not an opinion by the way, the facts are there in the thread for all to see!

As for the past, no one is arguing that previous coaches weren't given sufficient time. BN has been given plenty of time and it doesn't look like he can take the club any further and there are obvious areas of deficiency within the set-up, team selection etc which could be improved on by a new coaching and backroom team. Its time to bring in someone new.

Are you seriously saying that the likes of Feka and Riddell are fitter than everyone in the early-mid 90s side? Seriously?

Noble could only switch them as there was no one in the reserves to replace them with at full back, hence Ainscough was brought in on the wing.




We weren't rubbish v HKR and playing Sam T in that game would have been wrong. The last 20 mins of the first half was the roughest, toughest I've seen in years. It was knock ons from both sides due to the torrential rain and poor pitch condition.




Just because I see things differently to you Dave does not mean I'm blind. He dropped Ainscough after the Easter weekend and errors on the touchline in both the Saints and Catalans games. I started a thread on here suggesting Ainscough might be dropped as Noble did the same the previous season when Calderwood dropped a high ball v Catalans from which they scored the winning try. According to friends who went to Celtic Ainscough had a nightmare game there. His time will come as he's the most devastating try scoring winger in the game.



Yes ok go with three props and a front row as light and under powered as ours will get blown away. Send out three props and look at the oppositions team sheet and you'll find they're going with five. Bye bye two points! We did that v Wakey a few years ago. Only 3 props due to injuries and Tony Smith fielded five, a home banker turned into two points for Wakey.







Of course he's achieved improvement. He's taken us from a relegation team to a semi finals team. To take us up another level to a final winning team we need quality signings and everyone including our chairman knows this. As for dropping out of form players, there are other threads discussing whether Noble should drop Joel T or Flanagan as both are not at the top of their game. Neither are but who will he bring in? Mossop and who? Into a play off semi final? The answer is no one after Mossop and he'd start to struggle after 15 mins.

We have the best reserves and youth set up in the game but bringing lads out of the reserves into the first team is a massive jump. The gap is so wide it is doubtful it can be bridged under the current RFL/SL rules. This is why our lads are going out on loan. Mossop and Flanagan have benefited from this and are now gradually getting first team experience.
Any coach knows this and Anderson said whilst at Saints that younger players will give you a good game or two but then their performaces fade. This is the difficulty all coaches have and it's a major problem.
Brian Noble and the Wigan club are no exception.

You were saying earlier in the thread that the players we had at the time were far fitter than anyone else out there. I would agree, AT THAT TIME!

Now without going into the "We were the only FT Team argument!" How do you KNOW that we were Far fitter than the other teams?
What were the reasons we were far fitter? I.E did we take a massive Jump on all the other clubs at that time? A jump that took teams almost 10 x years to catch up.
We were winning things and hardly anyone else could finance this level of investment etc etc etc.
It was self perpetuating and we took it to the maximum.

HOWEVER

It is without a Shadow of a doubt that "All the Players" and "All the Teams" are now vastly fitter & Superior in tactical awareness and Fitness compared to 15 years ago!

Whether they are "Better" is a different argument and one which, when we discuss the merits of the SC/CC I would gladly aqrgue that all things currently aren't rosy.

HOWEVER

Feka for example is a product of the modern game and the Rules and strategies of that game.
If we could only have 2 x subs & 4 x interchanges he would drastically have to change his game, but it isn't, so there is a roll for him in his current format.
Could he be fitter? Could he be slimmer?
I would ask you, How do you know, the answers to these questions without access to training schedules,results etc?
Or is it Just an OPINION?

You brought Riddell into the argument, I know that he he is not 1 ounce over the playing weight set for him by the club and to what he has been playing within for the last 5 years in the NRL.
Are you telling me the coaches of the 2 x clubs in the NRL don't know what they're doing either?

The game has changed and "Competitiveness" seems to be the buzz word instead of "Excellence".

To manufacture that Competitiveness there are a lit of restrictions and regulations brought on all clubs that mean Quick change isn't possible always.
If we don't get reults immediately some times it is better to be patient and invest in systems & Processes rather than chop & change and look for success purely on a player recruitment basis.

Now you also failed to mention that i put in the sentance "In Comparison".

This is the key, Is Piggy as fit as Nicky Kiss/Martin Dermott was?

Was Kelvin Skerrett fitter than Feka?

I would say they both meet the required standards "Comparitively" for their positions and the situations they find themselves in within the current rules of the game.

But I would also say it helped our players in the the ealry 90's that we were so far ahead of everyone else it often seemed like our players were superhuman!
They were'nt, the club found a way of leaping forward in front of other clubs and the players etc took advantage of that.

Yes there are new ways of training/improving fitnees that "May" help us to take the next step forward.

But I will ask again, show me proof or facts that we are doing something poorly OR that the next man in will definatley have improved effects and will 100% work and I will be prepared to listen.
Because you know what, they may also FAIL.

Other than that, it's opinion, and that's where I disagree with most of the Anti Noble posters.
They pick on his failings, of which there are undoubtably some as with any coach, and then word it that if "XY&Z" happened we would defianatley be in a better state. That may or may not be true, only time will tell, but please don't sour EVERYTHING than BN has done to try & prove a point that he isn't the man to take us forward when it is obvious that he has done Many Good things for this club and his tenure has seen far more positives than Negatives!

This is what is causing alot of the problem, the mindless few who cannot see anything positive in anything Noble has done.