Quote Deano G="Deano G"There's no obsession with Ricky Bibey.
He's just an example of how pointless it is to praise a player for being "succcessful" on the basis of trophies won.'" No he isnt, he is used as a lazy and fatuous argument to denigrate the successes of others. Ricky Bibey earned, deserved, and won his success in the challenge cup. He won it twice, he did that, he should be proud of it. It isnt pointless to praise him for doing so, it is correct to praise him for doing so. He has earnt that praise for his success and he has done it in the only objective way possible.
Quote Deano G As I said, your definition of success reduces the the "fact" to one of pub quiz trivia level. '"
No it doesnt. It quanitifies success, it is a quantitative judgement. If you want to debate your qualitative opinion of Ali Lauitiiti with some one go ahead. It doesnt alter the success he has earned and the success he has acheived.
Quote Deano GThe fact that one the greatest players in the modern era of RL, Leeds own Garry Schofield was massively "unsuccessful" on your definition, despite playing international RL and being considered one of the best players in British RL year after year shows how little value there is in your definition.'"
schofield didnt earn that success. He doesnt deserve the accolades for successes he didnt acheive. Its a binary question, either you acheived that success or you didnt. Theres no qualification for Schofield to be judged more successful than he was and Lauitiiti less successful than he was on the basis of your own personal opinion, if Schofield had had the comittment, drive and big game temprament of Ali he would likely have been much more successful.
Quote Deano GOther definitions of successful overseas player might for example take into account value for money - in which case George Carmont would fit the bill, he has been a huge success for Wigan. '"
No, that would be a judgement of value for money. I suppose if you wanted you could judge the transfer as 'successful' on the basis of value for money but certainly not the player. But im not sure sport is an area where i would judge economics ahead of trophies when looking at success.
Quote Deano GOther definitions would look at the personal achievements and standard of play shown by the player in question - Garry was successful in terms of achieving international honours and receiving the plaudits of the RL press, players and fans, playing at the top of the sport in this country for many years.. He obviously wasn't a failure as a player (his punditry is a different matter
), although he played in a team which clearly wasn't successful.'" Well yes, that would be a a judgement of success but one you have limited to personal accolades rather than the wider, simpler definition of 'success'.
Quote Deano GFrom a Wigan perspective Edwards is the most successful player the club (and indeed the British game) has seen but Wigan fans don't particularly go on about it in the context of discussions about the relative merits of Wigan players because it just doesn't mean much. He may have won more medals than Hanley or Boston, but....'"
Wigan fans are constantly banging on about the relative success of their club and their players. They are infamous for it. But you have just clearly described the flaw in your argument. Whilst Edwards has been the most successful player in Wigans history ( a fact he, like Ali, should be proud of. It is, regardless of your attempts to denigrate it, an admirable acheivement) he may not be the best, similarly whilst Ali may be the most successful import of the SL era he may not necessarily be the best
), but I don't play to win or for accolades either, for that matter. I was brought up to do my best and without coming over like some oriental cod-philosopher the struggle is with yourself, the goal isn't to defeat others but to make sure you do and are the best that you can be. So there you go!
