Tbh, I'm looking at that pic and I'm not 100% convinced they are offside. The ball seems to be inline with the other feet, but it's really hard to tell. If it went up as a try, I think they'd struggle to over rule it, but likewise if it went up as no try they'd also struggle to reverse that one too.

The issue I have, and I hate refs, is their higher than mighty attitude. Go to the screen FFS. It's Wigan Vs Saints in a CC semi. Use the tech to help and, at least, try and get the right outcome. Sadly it was the Child's show.

Someone may prove me wrong but I thought both feet had to be behind the ball.

The photo on the link pretty conclusively shows that 2 or 3 players were offside.

the sad fact is we do not have a single 'good' referee. the current lot as almost as bad as Terry Albert

That is true. Trite to say it, but I don't think there's any way that try would have been given in the NRL. They have better tech than us though; more camera angles, clearer resolution. BUt of course the main point is, it should have gone to the VR.

Come back, Ashley Klein, all is forgiven!



Probably the worst of the NRL refs, but still better than any of ours.

No ban for Sironen for the high shot on Marshy, unbelievable. The lad seems to have taken over Maloney for constantly going high.

Still gutted about the result, but just wanted to say I was really impressed with Harry Smith and thought he was your MOM. His long kicking game was exceptional. It deflated me every time I saw him welly it 70 metres only for it to find the ground so can only imagine how the Saints players were feeling. Gutted about the mistake made for your last try with it being a pass that didn't need throwing, but that was some game to watch.

I was so surprised he got away with a ban (or even a citing by the looks of things) given his previous troubles.

It’s the total wild swings on decisions that annoy people. They seem incapable of finding sensible ground. How can you go from any contact with a player above the shoulders being sin bins/red cards and decent bans, to now you not even getting penalties on occasion? (Like Paasi clocking Havard on the nose).

They’ve made an absolute mess of officiating this year. It’s a tough job, we get that, but talk about making it impossible for yourselves.

Obviously I'm not saying Harry Smith = Kevin Sinfield, but his kicking in the 2nd half reminded me of the Grand Final semi vs Leeds in Wane's first season where we had the better team on paper, but couldn't deal with bringing the ball out from our 20 on every set.

It probably stood out a lot more because whilst we've had a decent turnover in the halves in the last 10 years or so (some very good, some not so good), very few of them really had the long range kicking game that can take the pressure off when the opposition is on top, as you clearly were for the opening period of the second half. Really promising that he can do that in his early 20s, hopefully for us and England he can really kick on from here.

That’s going to be the style of halfback Harry Smith will ultimately aiming to become. He’s a bit quicker, so he can add a bit more threat running the ball or supporting the ball but his career will live or die by his ability to move us around the field with his kicking game and his organisation skills. He could be absolutely vital for us longer term as the young pack develops and becomes more dominant and he’ll allow you to always look for a running halfback partner and they’re easier to come by.

Late to the party but what a performance that was on Saturday. I thought we had a good chance of beating Saints all week after consistently improving week on week but that first half was incredible play, by far the best we’ve seen in years - and I include the SW era in that.

There’s too many players to single out for praise but I will give special praise to Harry Smith. Written off, doubted by many of us on here (and I include myself in the latter) but what a turnaround. He is really proving himself to be an asset to this side and I couldn’t be happier for him.

I thought Morgan Smithies was excellent on Saturday and certainly won the battle of the two loose forwards. I've said this before I honestly believe that Smithies is a better player at his age than Knowles was.
Smithies really appears to have cut out the stupid penalties this season, something that continually let him down previously.

I couldn't agree more, this season he has really stepped up to the fore and is now showing us all what he can do. I still wish he would cut out all the faffing about when he's tackled though and just get up and play the ball.

Played Knowles off the park on Saturday. Knowles was barely noticeable in that game.

I thought Smith's defence was also much improved and his long range kicking game is something we have been desperate for for years. Compare to his first game of the year when he came on as sub and he made quite a few passes behind people and his timing was off he's really moved on.

The improvement in Smith, Smithies (who I was beginning to think had no place in the team last year), Liam, Havard, has been great to see - and really shows we need to avoid making snap knee jerk judgements - especially when as a team we were collectively struggling. Interesting to see how Partington develops from here - I think it's clear what our best forward pack looks like and Isa and Partington are outside that. Partington brings something different, but we still need more from him in making metres - if he can improve on that part of his game then he could push himself back into the frame.

I think Smith and Cust have the makings of a great partnership. It's easy to forget that Cust is still very young and inexperienced, he was really only a bench player at Manly and he's now leading the team around and is developing every game - worth remembering before we get on his back when he does make the occasional mistake in the future.

I haven't been so enthused by a Wigan team in a number of years.

I thought Smith's defence vs Saints was fine, generally. I still think he has some way to go on that score - Roby doesn't score that try with Tommy playing for instance. But generally the improvement in him as well as the forwards you mention has been wonderful to see.

I just hope most of them see their long term future at Wigan. I don't think we'll ever be out-done in our ability to produce top end players. The difference is that the likes of Saints, and before them Leeds, for whatever reason managed to get their cohorts to (in the main) stay together and reach their prime around the same time. We've not had that, sadly, but you get the sense that the likes of Byrne, Smith and Smithies might be more inclined to stick around. It seems as though KPP will get his offers from Aus pretty soon, but I really hope Havard develops into an international class prop and wins silverware at Wigan before he heads down under, if he does at all.

Partington does sit outside the first 17 IMO but he’ll show his value on Thursday. I expect he’ll play and I’d actually start him because there is a risk we lose focus a little and the lad will go at them at 100mph. He’s desperate to play for Wigan and whilst I think he sits outside the top 17, there’s a real value in having a guy like that, who you can drop in and out of the side, knowing he will go absolutely full throttle and bust a gut to get back in.

I think it shows how far we've progressed when we're able to bring the likes of Isa and Partington, who were team regulars last season and even at the beginning of this, into the side to cover rested players. Hallsall too, in that he's nothing at all behind the incumbents and could quite easily be there himself on merit. Great place to be squad wise.

Couldn't agree more Phuzzy.

Also Saints fans are bleating about how poor they were for the first 40 and that they can only improve on that I'd add that we were very poor in the extreme for the first 15 minutes or so in the second half and that as the year progresses we can only improve on that as we strive to put together a full 80 minute performance.

We are still work in progress in several areas but as long as we keep making incremental improvements we will continue to close the gap on Saints and Catalans.

We turned up for just 14 seconds of that 2nd half the Red Vee TV lads said. It’s funny they say that and blame their errors for the defeat but ignore how comfortable we actually looked at the start of the second half, until Marshall knocked on. The Saints spell started on the back of an error and until that error I felt they looked a bit beaten. It was only 5 or 6 minutes worth of action but respect the ball, don’t make the error and get through another 5-10 minutes and I think we take it home quite comfortably.

Who knows? But Saints are hanging their hats on it being totally their fault they didn’t play in the first half and are pointing to a 15 minute spell of dominance, on the back of our error, as proof next time will be different. We’ll have to play extremely well to beat them next time and the time after that and so on but I think we can do it again.

So we only turned up for 14 seconds of the 2nd half and still beat them? They must be proper .

Very true Itchy. Another marker of the rate of progress is that barely a month ago after the last Saints match you asked me for optimism on how we could beat them next time. A month later and we've done exactly that and that question is no longer relevant. The question now is how we KEEP doing it



The Saints reaction (the good posters on here aside) has been embarrassing. We only won because they let us and got a lucky bounce. No mention of the fact that not only did they only get back into the game on the back of our errors gifting them the opportunity, that they were offside for the Lomax try and that he got the very same "lucky bounce" in order to take it. No mention of the 4 points we didn't take from kicks which, had we taken them, would have meant that they never lead in that game. No mention of the bombed try (Faz to Bibby) or that we were a 'shirt grab' on Field away from making it a more comfortable win. Most of all they refuse to recognise the skill involved in picking that loose ball up at speed and sprinting 80 metres, outpacing England international backs in the process, to win that game. No. It was just a "lucky bounce".

I had a day off yesterday so I watched the game again. They were poor in the first half indeed. But Wigan contributed to them being poor by cutting down their space with excellent 'shut down' plays from Bibby and Marshall in particular and by neutralising Walmsley. That stopped them playing their usual front foot game and, as I've said before, they have no plan B. To hear them talk, the 10 minute purple patch (and let's be clear here, it was 10 minutes not the whole half) "proves" they can do that at will. They can't.

99.5% 2nd half possession and couldn't beat us, I'd be ashamed to show my face if I were a Saints player

Exactly. Especially considering how poor we are.

Absolutely.

Having them as back up is a great place to be and they will get plenty of game time this year. It just makes so much difference to our squad when they are not automatic picks because we don't have anyone else - shows how much our squad has improved this year.