I would make 3 points:

1. We don't know what has gone on. There is little point in speculation, though Gareth's body language on the link is that of someone who is gutted to have left.

2. Wigan are seriously weaker without him. If it wasn't the case before (which imo it was) IL really needs to strengthen the squad now.

3. What happens to his CC space? Do Wigan get any relief?

Widnes aren't a lower league club. They're in the same league.

Only if Wane's "vision" is any good and delivers.

The evidence so far suggests IL will let his coaches do their own thing and he judges them at the end of their contracts. So I wouldn't put it as strongly as IL being resolutely committed to anything. I don't think IL is after Jam tomorrow either. He expects success sooner rather than later.

Betts says in that video that there is no fee involved at all.

For those thinking if Wane goes Hock will return must be delusional. Hock will never play for Wigan again and not should he.

He has clearly done something that his bosses are not happy with and as good as he is no player is bigger than the club.

Thanks for the memories Gaz, but time for everyone to move on.

One thing that cannot be denied is the club and his these same bosses stood by and supported Hock, through the darkest days of his career. Doing something to anger his bosses to the level where he is deemed surplus to requirements shows he has a total lack of respect for what they did for him. He should have done everything the club asked him, clearly he has not, hence the situation we found ourselves in now.

Is there jam tomorrow in RL? If you build a good squad and win something it'll be decimated. However if you build a e squad, play badly and win things... Leeds

I think that Wane and everyone else at Wigan are well aware of IL's expectations for the club.

1- My main gripe with Wane is that he took a very successful side and changed the funder-mental principle of what made us so successful - Our mean, rough and tough defence. It's ok being your own man with your own ideas on how the game should be run but you've also gotta realise the basic time old principle of Attack wins games were defence wins championships. It's the basis and mantra of the Melbourne Storm and unsurprisingly Wigan under Maguire. I'm sure some clever d!ck will show some stats to say we conceded x-amounts of points last year compared to our time under Madge.

2-His harsh training methods. It seems some on here have very short memories in regards to the amount of players we lost because of training ground injuries last year. It screams of being stuck in the dark days of RL and old school coaching methods of full contact training all the time. I'm some fools on here love that. They still believe that RL players have it easy compared to a proper working day etc.

3-His big I am attitude in the media - How many seriously embarrassing comments did he make last season? How many times did he have to reiterate that he's his own man or confirm to the press what he's done or how he's changed things. It's on par with Noble sayings like throwing the baby out with the bath water. If your going to act like a Mourinho then expect people to bring you bang to rights when you fall flat.

4-His over-reliance on Wigan youngsters. We all like to see kids brought through but the ranks but Wane is blinkered with his loyalty towards them. First example is the Widnes away game. He loads the side with kids and then when we unsurprisingly lose he still thinks he's done no wrong and that the young lads had someone let HIM DOWN when it's actually the other way around. 2nd example of Murphy playing in the most important game of the season vs Leeds. Stupid and arrogant decision on Wane's part to stick a kid in the firing line against what are the most successful side of the last 5 years. Did he really not envisage that an astute RL player like Sinfield wouldn't have peppered him?

Now don't get me wrong here every coach has faults. Madge certainly had them but at the end of the day he also got results with a talented side. Heck even McDermott at Leeds has countless faults but has still managed to make sure his team of champions are ready in October. Wane had a quality side at his disposal but didn't win anything worth bragging about.

Do others not see the above? Or is it that he's from the WN post code which means he escapes criticism as Wigan is the most secular place on earth.

At the end of the day he has to trust his players. Jack Murphy playing in the playoff can't be used as a stick to beat Wane with. He is the reserves full back and the first team full back was injured. If he didn't think he was good enough to play there would be no point Murphy being at Wigan.

What poop squad is that that you talk about?

It's certainly coming to the end of it's run but;

Webb, Peacock, Buderus, JJB, Sinfield, Burrow, Maguire, Ellis, Senior, Hall, Watkins, Leuleui, Donald etc

All have played huge parts in the continued success seen at Leeds. Some have left, some have got old and retired whilst some have struggled. Such is time but it certainly doesn't detract from their collective achievements.

Don't blame the team blame the system that allows it.

Hock also seems to be bitter that we didnt let him go to Leeds, Saints or Warrington.

You may well be right but the point I was making was I don't think IL has joined Wane on the Road to Damascus which is what you post read like to me. He's just letting Wane get on with it, giving him what he asks for (within reason I suppose!) and will judge him on the results.

Just because a player isn't ready to play in the biggest games today doesn't mean he's not ever going to be ready.

Murphy might be really highly rated by all at the club BUT the magnitude of the game, the opposition that day and also his lack of game time was a recipe for disaster for everyone. A risk that didn't have to be taken

There were other more sensible and secure options out there for Wane to pick from i.e. Richards to FB - Thornley or Gelling to the Wing.

Also by your reasoning then Williams or Hampshire should have played when Tommy was injured shouldn't they? Instead we move half our team round to play Lockers @ 6 as he wouldn't risk a youngster in none event games?

It doesn't weigh up.

Some great, some not so great... I won't go into details, but the point is only Burrow and Hall are in their prime and they still won the grand final. But come the big occasion they've 13 world beaters. Somehow.