Yeah, Saints looked very ordinary indeed last night. Their fans are not a happy bunch.

Spot on assessment there.

Everyone is awful across the board and it's been declining season on season.

You only need to look back 5 years when Madge came over. You could argue us, Saints, Dire & Leeds where all in a much stronger position.

Can't believe that people actually peddle the line that this is the best SL has been.

But this side isn't the side that did the double and I think that is the point. I also think we are trying to play the same kind of attack with players who simply can't do it compared to back then and under Madge.

Since then the sides we have had have been knocked out of the CC at the first attempt twice and lost two finals. The stats of getting to two GF's mask the issues.



I thought Smith put in some good tackles v Salford and he looks to have been practicing his kicking (so far...) but offensively I think he is part of the problem of a very one dimensional attack.

I am still bemused as to how Sarginson got picked for England in the first place. He is fast but a headless chicken with no vision. Gelling is much the same, no vision and as likely to offload to no one as he is to his winger. Another classic Gelling moment v Salford I mentioned elsewhere just before half time where he gave the ball away deep in the Salford half and they went all the way to the other end and nearly scored. Brushing these off as occasional brain farts isn't any good in my opinion. He needs to cut them out completely because in close games he is going to cost us the match.

Gelling does make a lot of ground. He is 16 stone and is bigger and taller than Isa (15 stone I think) and so there is an idea. Isa has played centre before (in fact that was his original position) so stick Gelling in our rather lightweight pack, put Isa in the centres with Gildart who I think proved he was better than either Gelling or Sarge at the end of last season and I think we'd be far better. I doubt Wane will do this though. He seems very inflexible to me so will stick with the same tactics and players and when they don't work blames mistakes and lack of execution rather than considering it might be an idea to change things around.

Tbh, and I'm opening myself up for criticism for defending it, I think a part of Gelling doing stupid stuff like that is because our attack is so one-dimensional and lacks any shape and ideas at the moment.

He is almost the ideal centre. Great feet, strong, a good defender and so dangerous close to the opposition line.

At some point you have to gamble to win. Some of the crazy stuff he does comes off and then our fans lap it up. When it doesn't he's the villain. Imagine if that kick to Manfredi last year went straight into touch, people would be saying "why didn't he dive on it?", etc. but it was perfect and we scored from it.

In a season where we're playing some pretty boring stuff, and our half-backs can't organise or create anything, he's refreshing imo.

Someone on here said last week that as long as we win, they don't care how we play. I disagree massively. If you aren't being entertained then why bother watching? Gelling is entertainment either way. If we played the perfect game like most NRL teams try to do with low percentage plays, driving to the line until they get good enough field position to put a swing move on, or bomb to the corner to score off, I would be bored to death and stop watching.

Yeah, there's a lot of truth in that for me, too.

If we had played what some here call "Entertaining" rugby, and been 0/3 or 1/3, the board would be in meltdown... The same people who complain that we are too structured, also complain that Gelling is a liability, you can't have it all ways. Whatever you may think, the problem is not just at Wigan, and Wigan alone. It's that there is not enough money in the game, and we can bring in better quality players when or if we wish..

Why would we be 0/3 or 1/3? Before Thursday we had played a poor Catalan side who dropped enough ball to last a whole season and Huddersfield with a pile of injuries. I agree there are fine lines between entertaining, winning and playing with structure though. Leeds seem to do it quite well however with the same salary cap restrictions?

Quite right, it's a fine line... And, we are not yet out of February... Grand final is in October.

I don't think Gelling is actually thinking about what he does. I don't think he has decided nothing is happening so has decided to take matters into his own hands. I think he is just on a different planet to the rest of the team. Whenever he gets the ball I have no idea what he is going to do with it and I don't think his team mates do either. I think Sarge said this the other week. They aren't moments of brilliance someone like a Hanley could pluck out of thin air but crazy decisions that if they come off look good but if they don't have fans swearing at him. Great players follow the game plan and when the opportunity arises pull something out of the hat. Gelling is not doing that is but unpredictable to the point his team mates don't know what is going on with him.



I don't think it is because his plays are just random and are likely to fail as well as succeed. I think he'd make a far better forward were his job would be to carry the ball up and not try and do the stuff with ball in hand a good centre is expected to do.

I struggle to buy all this 'our moves are old and have been figured out' or 'we do nothing different from 2010' .. oh yes we do, our core skills are appalling. You don't need fancy moves to score a try. You need the ball moved at pace and with precision onto runners hitting the line at the correct time. That creates space and overlaps to score. we then need people with a brain cell to recognise those gaps and overlaps. Sadly we are lacking in all those areas. The aussies are not magic, they do the basics very well. we are incapable of passing the ball correctly.

excuses about Williams inexperience are fine, they cover up brain fart decisions, not being able to see space or making decision at the wrong time...that comes with experience..... they do not cover the 4/5 passes he put to ground at Salford and again at Brisbane. they are inexcusable basics every professional player should have. This goes for Smith and the rest of the team. Our best ball passer is Lockers.

we need to spend less time in the gym, less time wresting each other to death and more time doing the basics.

that's my humble opinion.

Dave O got it, for me.

At present, there is not a proper centre in the entire Wigan club.

Sarginson is useless, Gelling is less than useless 50% of the time - which is too much, and Oli, though I thought he played well against Salford, is too small.

I too would be prepared to push Gelling into the pack, and maybe give Isa a go in the centre (and let Sarginson go to RU). But I'd rather we signed a couple of seasoned centres. Hardly an ideal solution, but it seems like the only one at present.

And where do we get these "seasoned centres" that everybody is trying to get rid of?

And how is Isa any better than Gelling at centre? If we wanted a solid, boring centre that doesn't pass to his winger, we should've kept Jack Hughes and played him there.

Are we being a bit too hasty with Sarginson here?
Decent players don't become poor ones overnight. I still think he can do a job to a good standard (unless his mind is elsewhere, ala Chris Ashton).