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[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: shooter69 "stop talking crap we played very well last night a broke the line more last night than we have all season saints on the line defnce was awsome'"


Now, now. There's no need for abuse. If you don't agree with me then fine.

Many posters on this thread seem to be satisfied with a narrow defeat to Saints even if the rest of the season so far has been poor.

I do have "an axe to grind" which is that this is not good enough for Wigan. Maybe you all have different ideas about what Wigan's standards should be, perhaps you're all happy with 3 wins from 9 and a narrow defeat to Saints at home. I'm not.

The point I was making was that both the inconsistency so far this season and the lack of attacking moves are BN's responsibility at the end of the day. I stand by that.

To be honest I am amazed that Noble has so many defenders, most of the people that I spoke to last night are fed up with the poor tactics, poor preparation and the boring one-man style of rugby that BN favours.

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Quote: Memony "This is the same defence that we struggled to break down that Leeds couldn't get a sniff of breaking down... Saints are a very, very good defensive unit under Potter.'"


The fact is at times we were stood still in attack with no runners. Players were stood still when taking the ball. It was the same last night at times as it has been all season.

Likewise we have conceded tries close to our line all season. We often spend time in the opposition half but come up with little or nothing then as soon as they get a sniff of our line they are in. That is exactly what happened last night but has been this way all season.

Dave

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[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: Cruncher "It's not getting rid of him before the end of the season that could be difficult, it's replacing him before then.

I too feel that Noble has taken us as far as he's capable, and that the club should act accordingly. But we have to get the right person to replace him, and that may take time.'"


Don't disagree. Sadly though I think there's a big chance our season will be over in a few weeks' time. That's a depressing thought.

What I can't understand is why Noble still has so many supporters when the team is not delivering good performances (let alone winnning) on a consistent basis.

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Quote: Deano G "Don't disagree. Sadly though I think there's a big chance our season will be over in a few weeks' time. That's a depressing thought.

What I can't understand is why Noble still has so many supporters when the team is not delivering good performances (let alone winnning) on a consistent basis.'"


I don't think he will have for long. It possibly depends on what happens in the cup, given that the league's already long gone.

One thing's for sure. People will no longer be fooled by the end of season spurt (assuming it happens with no Trent Barrett to inspire it).

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The Communist Cap - dragging down success and aspiration to the levels of those who cba.:



Quote: Cruncher "I don't think he will have for long. It possibly depends on what happens in the cup, given that the league's already long gone.

One thing's for sure. People will no longer be fooled by the end of season spurt (assuming it happens with no Trent Barrett to inspire it).'"



?????


The league only starts in 3 or 4 months time.

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LOL, talk about wanting a man to fail!

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[color=#FF0000:1a02isux][b:1a02isux]IN A WARRIORS CODE THERE'S NO SURRENDER....THOUGH HIS BODY SAYS STOP, HIS SPIRIT CRY'S NEVER!!!![/b:1a02isux][/color:1a02isux]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17903.jpg



Quote: Red Hot Jalapeno "LOL, talk about wanting a man to fail!'"



Agree

i believe we need change but i would never wish anyone to fail

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Quote: wigan_knight "Agree

i believe we need change but i would never wish anyone to fail'"


One other way to look at it is that so long as Noble is able to keep Wigan afloat - at mid-table or slightly higher - the more difficult it is for the club to replace him. Whereas, if we drop to the bottom of the table, there'll be no option and no argument.

I don't want us to be cellar dwellers, but neither do I wish us to continue indefinitely with a coach who is looking increasingly out of his depth at the higher end of SL.

Last night was a classic illustration. We did the hard work. We matched Saints in the middle of the field for a lot of the game. But when it came to being clever and putting our chances away with smart attacking moves, we were bereft of ideas.

We also - yet again, and once again it was a fatal error - went to sleep for about twenty minutes in the second half. That shows a lack of mental toughness.

Both of these fundamental problems can be laid at the door of the head-coach. If not him, who else?

He's been one of the longest serving coaches we've had for some time, yet we've not visibly improved under him, even though on paper we're probably a better side than we were when he took over.

I don't want to see him sacked - I feel that would cause disruption and would be poor reward for a man who's not been successful rather than has actually failed. But I want to see a modern, forward-thinking coach take over when Nobby's contract expires at the end of this season.

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Quote: Red Hot Jalapeno "Absolute rubbish. We played very well last night and had we had a bit more luck/composure/experience would of beaten Saints. Do not lose sight of the fact that Saints have just dismantled Leeds at Headingly and are the best team in the comp by far.

'"


Exactly RHJ, composure is what we lack when we get behind in games as happens so often.. Had we shown a bit more composure we would have beaten Wakefield, Hull, Castleford and probably Wakefield, but we didn't. Coaching composure and having a plan B when the chips are down is obviously not one of Noble's strong points.

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Quote: Cruncher "Last night was a classic illustration. We did the hard work. We matched Saints in the middle of the field for a lot of the game. But when it came to being clever and putting our chances away with smart attacking moves, we were bereft of ideas.

We also - yet again, and once again it was a fatal error - went to sleep for about twenty minutes in the second half. That shows a lack of mental toughness.

Both of these fundamental problems can be laid at the door of the head-coach. If not him, who else?

'"


This is the reason weve bought Gleeson to give us options down the right as well as the left. You say we had no idea well in all honesty niether did Leeds last week who couldnt break Saints defence down. Give Saints some credit for their heroic defence at least. Also add to that the fact we are playing a young lad in a pivotal position and our 7 is not exactly a great defence opener. On top of that we had the chances to win the game easily but couldnt finish them.

I failed to see any 20 minute lapse as you put it. Had that happened Saints would of run in try after try. What we did see was 2 individual errors cost us the game. Carmonts charging out of the line leaving Gidley half a chance that he took and Roberts failing to catch a bomb. There never was a 20 minute lapse as you put it.

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Quote: Red Hot Jalapeno "This is the reason weve bought Gleeson to give us options down the right as well as the left. You say we had no idea well in all honesty niether did Leeds last week who couldnt break Saints defence down. Give Saints some credit for their heroic defence at least. Also add to that the fact we are playing a young lad in a pivotal position and our 7 is not exactly a great defence opener. On top of that we had the chances to win the game easily but couldnt finish them.

I failed to see any 20 minute lapse as you put it. Had that happened Saints would of run in try after try. What we did see was 2 individual errors cost us the game. Carmonts charging out of the line leaving Gidley half a chance that he took and Roberts failing to catch a bomb. There never was a 20 minute lapse as you put it.'"


Saints defended very well. But we don't have enough guile and speed in our attack close to the tryline to really test them. IMO that's been one constant through Noble's reign - even when we had Barrett. Putting the blame totally on our half-backs or individual errors misses the point - it's the team's collective failure to turn attacking field position into points that's the biggest problem.

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Dan Sarginson: "This is a fantastic opportunity for me to join the biggest name in the competition" 18/10/2013 Tony Clubb: "This is a new exciting chapter of my life signing for Wigan and I couldn't be happier" 18/10/2013 Romain Navarrete: “I’m very happy to have signed for Wigan Warriors. As soon I knew that Wigan were interested, they were the only team that I wanted to sign for. To me, Wigan is the biggest Club in Rugby League and it will be an honour to pull on the famous Cherry-and-White jersey next year. I look forward to working with Shaun Wane and the players at Wigan.”:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10172.jpg



Going back four or five years, we had a mass exodus of players, including Faz, Lam, Smith, Cassidy, O'Connor and all the young lads etc etc, went through the Dennis Betts and Ian Millward management era, broke the salary cap rules, nearly got relegated in 2006 and achieved mediocre league finishes in 2007 and 2008, had a change of ownership and brought in a host of new players and backroom staff.
How people can expect immediate gratification and success amazes me.
If you were in business and went through all those problems and upheaval, there is no way you could expect the business to work effectively, as it takes time for things and people to settle down. I'm still of the view that gradual improvement followed by consistent quality performance will do for me. A new coach now could set us back again.

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Quote: Smooth Stu "Going back four or five years, we had a mass exodus of players, including Faz, Lam, Smith, Cassidy, O'Connor and all the young lads etc etc, went through the Dennis Betts and Ian Millward management era, broke the salary cap rules, nearly got relegated in 2006 and achieved mediocre league finishes in 2007 and 2008, had a change of ownership and brought in a host of new players and backroom staff.
How people can expect immediate gratification and success amazes me.
If you were in business and went through all those problems and upheaval, there is no way you could expect the business to work effectively, as it takes time for things and people to settle down. I'm still of the view that gradual improvement followed by consistent quality performance will do for me. A new coach now could set us back again.'"


None of the past problems can excuse lack of commitment/pride in the shirt, too many unforced errors, lack of fitness from certain players etc etc. I was pleased with Wigan's performance last night but on the whole we are too inconsistent and playing well in one or two games is not going to change my opinion of that. With the squad we have we should be doing better than we have been, not because we are Wigan and we have a God-given right but because we have some decent players who have proved they are capable of playing better than they usually do. I fell that 10% more commitment could have won us 50% more games at least. The only way of improving the attitude of certain players long term is by showing them their place in the team is not guaranteed, yet it is only on very few occasions Noble has done this.

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Dan Sarginson: "This is a fantastic opportunity for me to join the biggest name in the competition" 18/10/2013 Tony Clubb: "This is a new exciting chapter of my life signing for Wigan and I couldn't be happier" 18/10/2013 Romain Navarrete: “I’m very happy to have signed for Wigan Warriors. As soon I knew that Wigan were interested, they were the only team that I wanted to sign for. To me, Wigan is the biggest Club in Rugby League and it will be an honour to pull on the famous Cherry-and-White jersey next year. I look forward to working with Shaun Wane and the players at Wigan.”:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10172.jpg



Quote: gpartin "None of the past problems can excuse lack of commitment/pride in the shirt, too many unforced errors, lack of fitness from certain players etc etc. I was pleased with Wigan's performance last night but on the whole we are too inconsistent and playing well in one or two games is not going to change my opinion of that. With the squad we have we should be doing better than we have been, not because we are Wigan and we have a God-given right but because we have some decent players who have proved they are capable of playing better than they usually do. I fell that 10% more commitment could have won us 50% more games at least. The only way of improving the attitude of certain players long term is by showing them their place in the team is not guaranteed, yet it is only on very few occasions Noble has done this.'"



I agree.

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'There's only one code of rugby.':



It's not just composure that we're lacking, it's a player that can make something happen. It was pretty obvious last night that we were missing a half back who could create something close to the saints line. We also didn't seem to have any decent moves that were going to ask questions of the Saints defence and for this part you have to blame the coach...

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