Lots of good points here, and several open minds.

Having brought up in and played league I am concerned at the game these days; it's just about power, percentages and no risk. Consequently there are very few game breakers, it's usually just an arm wrestle until one team overpowers the other. . Even worse, the basic skills seem to be forgotten, looking at the number of basic mistakes made when I've seen recent games. In my view it is not as entertaining as it was.

I agree with most of the points made about Union, but I would point out it's no longer just a game for toffs; there are a limited number of public schools! Obviously the media is full of Union types but that's as much about where it's based as anything else. My honest view is that many genuine League fans are parochial, and many I have spoken to don't want a team in London (though they don't mind an annual trip to see les Cats!)
Likewise many of the officials, are club-centric and don't want to commit resources to Inetnational Rugby. Like them or not, lots of Union people are open minded, happy to steal ideas from league and other sports, and willing to work to support their game.
In the 90's a very senior Union figure told me that Wigan was the greatest Rugby club of any kind anywhere in the world; would that it were still true.....

One of the big differences between the codes is the way the people involved think of themselves, if that makes sense.

Union seems to be far more confident in itself, whereas in League it is truly shocking how many people want to talk the game down The fans, media and even administrators all do it

Union people understand the need to project a positive image, lots of League people act like the game is going to hell in a handcart

On this thread and a couple of others recently people have been going on about various Union players being far superior to anything on show in League, thats just another example of the doom and gloom that seems to engulf our sport

It never has been. As you said, it's just that a lot of people in the "media" who are associated with RU, happen to give off that impression (or more accurately like to think they do). Around Northampton or Bristol RU is very much a "working class" (if you subscribe to that terminology) game.

Their (ru) tackling used to be laughable but now proably due to ex league players their techniques at international level are now proabably as good as rl.
What is amazing is how the drop goal still worth 3 points is not used very often

Got to agree with that. There is almost an apologetic attitude when it comes to talking up the game of RL from certain adminstrators. The M62 corridor is often used when discussing RL and the game seems to have accepted this and it often comes across as a negative.

As a League fan living in Shropshire, whenever i talk to friends or family about Rugby, the six nations is always mentioned. No matter how often i've tried to explain that there are two forms of Rugby, i always get a shrug of the shouders and a shake of the head, followed by i don't understand rugby anyway.

The game itself or the image has struggled since the last World Cup in 2000. Since then the administration side of the game has been very coy about expanding the game outside the heartlands and appears to like to keep alot of what happens "in house". Even the SuperLeague show has only just been launched nationally, albeit in the early hours! Having said that, any matches played on a Sunday will never get coverage due to the programme being recorded Sunday morning/lunchtime. Compare this to the coverage that the Guinness Premiership gets on ITV4, it's head and shoulders above Boots n All and the SL Show.

If you compare the Sky TV coverage between the two sports, th RU shows always come across as far more proffessional, has more in depth analysis and the commentators are enthiastic about everything in the game. Eddie and Stevo however, rant and rave on about their own thoughts and theories without actually commentating on what's going on on the pitch most of the time, often picking up on the bad points or errors.

With the French Super 14 having no salary cap and having the ability to seemingly throw money at any English RU player wanting to make the move, this could spell danger for RL, as RU clubs could well come a knocking for young RL talent. Their salary cap is already in excess of RL anyway!

When I was well past my league playing days I was asked by several (not high level) union clubs to do tackling training sessions;as I keep banging on about, they were open minded, willing to learn, and I really never encountered any snobbery (this was the early 90's).

i am a season ticket holder at salford but my lad plays ru at under 1s level and in training sessions we teach them all aspects of rugby league to incoparate into ru.bu you have to remember in ru if you have the ball the opposition cant score.with regards to the drop goal not being used i think proffesional teams are urged to score trys unless losing with a couple of points with a few minutes to go.both codes can learn off each imo.

Start 'em young.

under 13s i am a fool

I fear for RL to a certain extent.

RU has the POTENTIAL to be a better sport. The players are not up to league standard in terms of fitness, but they're getting fitter all the time. Tweak the rules a little, and you have a sport that resembles 'old' rugby league, which to my mind was far more interesting to watch than the British Bulldog-eque game we have today.

All you have to do is look at RU in the Southern Hemisphere. The ruck has quickened up so much that in many cases it's like the play-the-ball anyway with rarely more than 2 or 3 forwards piling in. The rules have been tweaked so as to encourage more attacking play, which has had the desired result, as more tries are now scored. They are even toying with the idea of making the defence stand five metres back from the gain line, whereas at the moment, they are allowed to stand on it. Clearly, this will encourage deep-set attacking play, just like League used to do.

Then all you have to do is look at Shaun Edwards' side, Wasps. OK, they've been less than successful this year due to many personnel changes, but also due to the fact that clubs have cottonned onto his style. He pioneered the 'move forward in a line' (rush) defence technique already common in League. All the other sides have copied it. Union never used to use dummy runners, but they do now.

I used to hate union in the amateur days. We all know what it was like. The ball used to be in the stands more than it was on the pitch. League people still call union for that - well, all I can say is that they've not watched a game of it for a few years. And if that's the case, that makes us no better than the general UK public, encouraged by the union faithful, who like to portray RL as a beer swilling, northern, mudbath.

RL needs to get its finger out. We may have the superior game, but for how long?

I agree Robinson.

Sadly I too fear for the game, and one of the reasons, perhaps predictably is our old friend the Communist Cap.

RU is currently "suffering" from losing players to the French league (where there is no CC in force).

How long before they say "enough" and scrap their cap? More immediately is the likelihood of them turning to RL to fill their vacancies.

RL on the other hand is happier cowering to the likes of Cas and Wakey and dumbing down to their levels.

Still with a chairman like ours who appears to be as tight as a fishes tight bits, then it looks like Wigan RL have no ambition in the "signing stars" department in any case.

If the cap was scrapped we would probably fill our squad with St Pats players.........

I wouldnt blame the cap as such, I mean several clubs were very nearly bankrupted, including ours.

In fact I would say that at the moment, a cap is necessary to stop things spiralling out of control.

That's not to say that I actually agree with the cap though. I would love it to be scrapped, but you can only do that if there is enough money in the sport, and you won't get that without sponsorship. you won't get sponsorship without promotion. And without promotion, you won't get fans, which means no sponsorship.

The buck has to stop with the RFL. They need to COMPEL the clubs, IMMEDIATELY to promote themselves by basically, bombarding the media with news. The RFL need to back the clubs by doing the same.

Then, and only then, will be we able to grow our sport to the potential we know it has.

I agree there has to be some kind of regulation.

However, a simple Turnover cap (based on the PRECEEDING seasons Turnover) would help to ensure the survival of clubs. Frankly you can never 100% ensure their survival, but that's a seperate debate.

i am going to upset the apple cart here the problem with regards to 2 games is when you see internationals they are sell outs,because they try and bring through youngsters and no just go for a quick fix ie overrated aussies and kiwis.i am a lover of both games because i am a season ticket holder at salford and my lad plays for orrell rufc.with regards to ru being behind i think you need take a look again they are miles in front with regards to everything media ie