The point being if you make numerous bad decisions and the team is underperforming, you don't give some people the reason to part with their cash when there's a cost of living crisis going on for a lot of people.

If 5000 more people turned up to every game and the same decisions were made, we'd be in exactly the same position because we're in a salary capped sport.

Replacing Gildart with Thornley is fine IMO. Gildart has hardly played for two years and as things stand we have Hardaker, Bibby, Thornley and Halsall going for two spots.

The fact we’re still scrambling for a Hastings replacement is pretty unforgivable IMO. He is a big loss and our only real loss for next season as things stand. The other players leaving have been injured more often than not or they haven’t been selected, so I’m confident the squad is automatically quite a bit stronger but it’s hugely let down by us not sorting out a top quality replacement for Hastings.

It's a good point, but I think if goes deeper than that too.

15 years ago or so, I could watch a Wigan Vs Saints game that had Radders, Faz, Newton, Smith, Lam Vs KFC, Long, Scully, Lyon etc. The standard is dog turd these days, but yet we keep being asked to dip our hands in our pockets.

I'm slick of A - being taken for some kinda cash cow that the club, sport take for granted and, B - forced to happy clap about how great British RL is. People won't like it, heck i wouldn't either, but it's time to get rid of the cap - even if that means Wire win the league.

They haven't passed me by no, but other than mentioning Lam all of your other comments (Hastings, Gildart and the squad) relate to next season. Or am I making things up again?

We pay up to the cap so yes you're probably right in terms of the squad (although there are multiple ways our salary can increase with player dispensations), but if 5000 more people turned up would we be able to pay a transfer fee for a player? Or possibly spend more money on marketing or one of the other sticks used to beat the club?

Why did people not part with their cash when we were winning things? Crowds haven't just fallen in the last season and a half.

Yep, you're making things up again.

The other things I mentioned have been happening for a number of seasons and affect past, present and future - things such as recruitment and retention issues have been years in the making.

George Williams was the replacement for Hastings. We all know that. It didn't come off and so we've had to go back to the drawing board. Field and French being injured all season and neither playing any time in the halves to see how they would fare also hasn't helped.

And yet every season our fans say we should be top 2/3.

Was the recruitment and retention poor in 2016 when we won the league? Or 2017 when we won the WCC? Or 2018 when we won the league again?

Or 2020 when we finished League Leaders and were a bounce away from being champions?

I've said this loads, but it's not all about winning things. I love/loved our final wins under Wane, but there were a hell of a lot of games that weren't worth the entrance fee. I want to see the same commitment that lads have for finals on day 1 of the season & throughout the year too. For me, we had that under Madge (which I believe saw crowds increase?).

I have respect for IL, but I'm not overly sympathetic to the financial hardship he keeps talking about. It's pretty much a given that you don't buy a sports club to make money.

If the right player was available, I've no doubt that the club would pay a transfer fee to get them. We also allegedly offered Williams the highest ever contract at the club (and I'm glad they didn't get into a bidding war for his services). So, the club (i.e. Lenagan) will currently spend money if they believe it is in the right interests of the club and will generate further interest. They're spent money on marketing and the new badge etc (again something I agree with as they trying to generate interest from new and younger fans).

It's the other decisions I mentioned and no doubt others that have affected the club (on the pitch) and contributed to lower crowds over a number of seasons.

- Those who had the power to get the club a replacement for Hastings when it's been common knowledge for about a year he was leaving and still haven't?

We don't know how we will do without Hastings next season or indeed who will replace him

- Those who had the power to get a suitable replacement for Gildart and are giving us Thornley?

We have no idea how we will go next season

- Those who had the power to terminate Lam's contract and didn't?

Last 3 seasons, will give you that one

- Those who had the power on recruitment and retention and have given us the current squad?

We have no idea how the current squad will perform under a new coach

- Those who had the power to not have the disastrous policy or re-signing ex-players - none of whom were better the second time round, and most considerably worse?

Returning players off the top of my head:

Tommy - Won the WCC in 2017 and the league in 2018
Sam - Won the league in 2018
Bateman - Had one season back in a poorly coached team, too early to judge
Joel - Part of a league and WCC winning squad as well as 2 GF losing squads. Played 88 games over 4.5 seasons.
Budgie - Injury issues but scored 55 in 72 including in a WCC win.

We haven't won a major trophy in three years, - and consider this against the backdrop of how poor the competition has been for a number of years, so yes years in the making.

I notice you can't name one player who was better the second time round - just tell me what the team won (which stopped in 201icon_cool.gif. The only one who I consider got close was Sam, and he's gone up another level since moving to Catalan.

So they played in a winning team in a team sport but were poor signings?

Coached by an idiot.

Where did you think the squad would finish in 2019, 2020 and 2021?

Most fans had us as winners or finalists so how poor was our squad?

Or I suppose what I should ask.....................who would you have replaced in the squad and who with?

And who made the decision to keep the "idiot" for three years...........

I've given you that one. It was a cock up.

Your other points all relate to next season.

Where did you think we would finish BTW?

Ah, it was only a matter of time before the old straw man, what would you have done..........which of course no one could ever answer without knowing contract detailt etc

You really need to stop taking criticism of aspects of how the club has been / is being run as some kind of personal affront. If you're happy great, a lot of people aren't with some aspects, but yet again for you and some other posters everything is black and white and some people are moaning about everything (they're not) when they raise some issues.

But recruitment has been poor so you must have some ideas. Who would you have got rid of then.

Oh, and still waiting for you answer on where you thought the 2019, 2020 and 2021 squads would finish

Not all of my other points relate to next season, as I've had to mention more than once now.

A lot depends on what can be rectified from the lack of replacing Hastings fiasco in terms of where I think we'll finish. That will make or break our season in terms of being anywhere near competitive.

- Those who had the power to get the club a replacement for Hastings when it's been common knowledge for about a year he was leaving and still haven't?

Next season

- Those who had the power to get a suitable replacement for Gildart and are giving us Thornley?

Next season

- Those who had the power to terminate Lam's contract and didn't?

- Those who had the power on recruitment and retention and have given us the current squad?

Next season

- Those who had the power to not have the disastrous policy or re-signing ex-players - none of whom were better the second time round, and most considerably worse?

50/50 that one I guess so I will give you the benefit of the doubt


I'm also not asking where you think we will finish next season.....................where did you think we would finish in 2019-2021?

Gildart missed a huge chunk of last season and even when he returned, his performances were exactly like someone who didnt want to get hurt in case his mega-money move to the NRL was postponed.

Hastings has never set the world alight and again looked like he was wishing he'd just stayed in Aus after sorting his next move out instead of getting back for pre-season.. His lack of quality was evident when he was forced to play with either an aging Leuluai or a young and inexperienced Smith for most of the season, except when he was playing at full back, where again he didnt look great.

In terms of attracting fans who have walked away, its simple. They want to see an entertaining, winning side, and until we start doing both, the fans wont be back.

Over to you IL/KR...

I hate to break this to you, but a large number of the squad for next season is also based on the squad in previous season (which hasn't won a major trophy for three seasons) - we don't sign players on a year-to-year basis. Poor recruitment and retention of players who are in the squad for next season have been in the underperforming squads over a number of seasons.

Decisions made over a number of seasons have lead to underperformance, which meant we haven't won a major trophy for three years against a backdrop of a poor competition, which will continue to have a knock-on effect on the squad moving forward. I couldn't make my opinion clearer. It's not the fans fault.