We got the 2 points, we’re still in the hunt for the top 6 with nearly half our team missing. What does worry me as a RL is that a lot of your team will be representing England at the end of the year, a team that got dominated by a pack full of SR’s. Marshall, Wardle, Smith, Thompson, O’Neill, Nsemba, Havard, Dupree, Byrne will all be in the mix.
I've not followed your debate on here but in regards to that point, I wouldn't worry too much. With all due respect to Wakey and all of Wigan's other opponent's in recent weeks/months, the Wigan players just aren't mentally switched on at the minute and the performances they're dishing up currently will be a world away from the ones come August/September, just as they were around this time in 2024, 2023 and 2022. There is no way guys like Dupree and Byrne make the England squad anyway but the rest likely will and they'll be extremely important for us. I wouldn't concentrate on their form as of now, I'd go back and watch the versions of them that played in Vegas, at HKR away or in all the finals they've played in during the previous 3 years.
It's hard to not belittle just how good Wakey were the other night in being honest but the honest answer is that games away at Wakey, in Dewsbury, at Salford etc just aren't exciting the Wigan players. Matt Shaw, the RL journalist, had it right when he said they look almost bored at the minute. Wakey were brilliant, deserved the win (and the scoreline flattered us) and the work going on at the club is so impressive and really pleasing to see. It's a world away from 5-10 years ago and I think the new owner will look at HKR and think he can do something similar in the coming years.
I take your point about the players not performing at their peak, but thats a concerning lack of professionalism and is unfair on the fans who pay to watch and the coaching staff.
We got the 2 points, we’re still in the hunt for the top 6 with nearly half our team missing. What does worry me as a RL is that a lot of your team will be representing England at the end of the year, a team that got dominated by a pack full of SR’s. Marshall, Wardle, Smith, Thompson, O’Neill, Nsemba, Havard, Dupree, Byrne will all be in the mix.
I've not followed your debate on here but in regards to that point, I wouldn't worry too much. With all due respect to Wakey and all of Wigan's other opponent's in recent weeks/months, the Wigan players just aren't mentally switched on at the minute and the performances they're dishing up currently will be a world away from the ones come August/September, just as they were around this time in 2024, 2023 and 2022. There is no way guys like Dupree and Byrne make the England squad anyway but the rest likely will and they'll be extremely important for us. I wouldn't concentrate on their form as of now, I'd go back and watch the versions of them that played in Vegas, at HKR away or in all the finals they've played in during the previous 3 years.
It's hard to not belittle just how good Wakey were the other night in being honest but the honest answer is that games away at Wakey, in Dewsbury, at Salford etc just aren't exciting the Wigan players. Matt Shaw, the RL journalist, had it right when he said they look almost bored at the minute. Wakey were brilliant, deserved the win (and the scoreline flattered us) and the work going on at the club is so impressive and really pleasing to see. It's a world away from 5-10 years ago and I think the new owner will look at HKR and think he can do something similar in the coming years.
I take your point about the players not performing at their peak, but thats a concerning lack of professionalism and is unfair on the fans who pay to watch and the coaching staff.
I don't think I'd call it a lack of professionalism, I just think the coaching staff know it's a long season and probably aren't pushing them quite as hard at the minute, as they will do down the back straight. It's hard to strike the right tone in a debate like this, between not doing down how well teams are playing against us, while still trying to point out that mentally, Wigan's players are just on a bit of a lull.
There is a really great comparison between Wigan and HKR at the minute in terms of the excitement levels and how motivated both look. Competing to win things (and now having won something) is brand new for the HKR team but it isn't for this Wigan group or the club in general. HKR probably have the mental energy to be up each and every week, throughout the full season but that's obviously more of a challenge for a team already at the top and who went in to the season holding every available trophy. I don't think that's a lack of professionalism, it's just human nature.
May be wishful thinking on my part and admittedly if I were given a large sum of money to place as a charity bet- I would still bet on Wigan but I do feel there is a sense of too much relaxation with Wigan fans at the moment. There seems to be an almost guaranteed expectation that they are suddenly going to find their form again and sweep everyone aside come the business end of the season.
However I don't think you've been great for most of the season to be honest. I get that Champion teams find a way to win when playing poorly (I'm also a Utd fan for my sins and we did that for a long time) Hudds game last week was a prime example for you but I do think you need to start hitting your straps soon and start to build combinations etc.
Whilst you have most certainly had injuries, you have had your main spine all season (bar O Neil) so it would be interesting to see how you go with no Field, French or Smith. French missed the Hudds game where you got out of jail and by all accounts was poor on Friday.
Meanwhile HKR are winning every week and now have that first trophy which was a monkey on their back.
As I've said I do still think you are the team to beat in the GF but if you are not careful, the desired form may not kick in as easily as you think.
The HKR game for you in August will be a good test to see if indeed your players get that appetite back and show them who's boss.
We got the 2 points, we’re still in the hunt for the top 6 with nearly half our team missing. What does worry me as a RL is that a lot of your team will be representing England at the end of the year, a team that got dominated by a pack full of SR’s. Marshall, Wardle, Smith, Thompson, O’Neill, Nsemba, Havard, Dupree, Byrne will all be in the mix.
I've not followed your debate on here but in regards to that point, I wouldn't worry too much. With all due respect to Wakey and all of Wigan's other opponent's in recent weeks/months, the Wigan players just aren't mentally switched on at the minute and the performances they're dishing up currently will be a world away from the ones come August/September, just as they were around this time in 2024, 2023 and 2022. There is no way guys like Dupree and Byrne make the England squad anyway but the rest likely will and they'll be extremely important for us. I wouldn't concentrate on their form as of now, I'd go back and watch the versions of them that played in Vegas, at HKR away or in all the finals they've played in during the previous 3 years.
It's hard to not belittle just how good Wakey were the other night in being honest but the honest answer is that games away at Wakey, in Dewsbury, at Salford etc just aren't exciting the Wigan players. Matt Shaw, the RL journalist, had it right when he said they look almost bored at the minute. Wakey were brilliant, deserved the win (and the scoreline flattered us) and the work going on at the club is so impressive and really pleasing to see. It's a world away from 5-10 years ago and I think the new owner will look at HKR and think he can do something similar in the coming years.
I take your point about the players not performing at their peak, but thats a concerning lack of professionalism and is unfair on the fans who pay to watch and the coaching staff.
I don't think I'd call it a lack of professionalism, I just think the coaching staff know it's a long season and probably aren't pushing them quite as hard at the minute, as they will do down the back straight. It's hard to strike the right tone in a debate like this, between not doing down how well teams are playing against us, while still trying to point out that mentally, Wigan's players are just on a bit of a lull.
There is a really great comparison between Wigan and HKR at the minute in terms of the excitement levels and how motivated both look. Competing to win things (and now having won something) is brand new for the HKR team but it isn't for this Wigan group or the club in general. HKR probably have the mental energy to be up each and every week, throughout the full season but that's obviously more of a challenge for a team already at the top and who went in to the season holding every available trophy. I don't think that's a lack of professionalism, it's just human nature.
To add to the point NK is making, we've seen clubs including Wigan go all out in the past to win the LLS, but it has come at the expense of winning the grand final. KR are no doubt playing well at the minute and blowing sides away. Wigan up to Friday have been doing enough to win games (Just about), and that isnt disrespecting the opposition / opposition fans or a clubs own fans. Its about managing the squad and peaking fitness wise when it matters. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to the league, and believe 1st past the post should be champions i.e. if KR finish top this year, IMO they should be champions, but that's not the game we are in at the minute, and if KR dont win the GF, then no-one apart from KR fans will remember they finished top of the pile
Onto Wakey, and it looks like after a few years in the doldrums that you are getting it right off the field, and also starting to build on it. I have been very critical of Wakey in the past with all of the broken promises re new ground etc etc, but also give credit when you can clearly see that you are making strides on and off. I suppose the model to look at is KR who have developed the ground, built a squad, and over the last 2-3 seasons have been reaping the rewards (albeit it took til the CC this year for the silverware)
May be wishful thinking on my part and admittedly if I were given a large sum of money to place as a charity bet- I would still bet on Wigan but I do feel there is a sense of too much relaxation with Wigan fans at the moment. There seems to be an almost guaranteed expectation that they are suddenly going to find their form again and sweep everyone aside come the business end of the season.
However I don't think you've been great for most of the season to be honest. I get that Champion teams find a way to win when playing poorly (I'm also a Utd fan for my sins and we did that for a long time) Hudds game last week was a prime example for you but I do think you need to start hitting your straps soon and start to build combinations etc.
Whilst you have most certainly had injuries, you have had your main spine all season (bar O Neil) so it would be interesting to see how you go with no Field, French or Smith. French missed the Hudds game where you got out of jail and by all accounts was poor on Friday.
Meanwhile HKR are winning every week and now have that first trophy which was a monkey on their back.
As I've said I do still think you are the team to beat in the GF but if you are not careful, the desired form may not kick in as easily as you think.
The HKR game for you in August will be a good test to see if indeed your players get that appetite back and show them who's boss.
Maybe one season it doesn't happen but the last couple of years have been a mirror image of how this one is going in terms of league form. That doesn't guarantee we turn it again and there is no doubt that this HKR provide the stiffest challenge of the last 3 seasons now but I think that will (eventually) excite these players. You obviously pretty much agree, given Wigan would be your charity bet but it's no given.
What puts me at ease with this team is the amount of big game players in it. The last thing guys like French and Smith could be called is flat track bullies. They're going through the motions at the minute. French barely looks interested and Smith can't concentrate for toffee in these spells but when the big games come and stress is applied, they absolutely love it. I don't think they've been as far off the mark in this spell as those two but I'd put Field, Wardle, Marshall, O'Neill, Thompson, Farrell and especially Ellis in that bracket as well.
HKR are playing like Cas in 2017, where they're riding the crest of a wave and fair play to them. They've worked hard and built over these last few seasons. In all honesty though, I think what they're doing at the minute and the praise they're getting (rightfully) plays in to Wigans hands. A team winning two on the bounce could become complacent in the big games but after the Hull cup loss and having a few months of watching KR play like this and listen to all that noise from the media, there is absolutely zero chance of that happening.
The run of home games towards the back end will be key - if we can build some form and momentum in those games then assuming we're 2nd we'll be tough to beat in a home semi final.
One area our attack was breaking down consistently on Friday was around Kaide Ellis. Not blaming him as such but it was an obvious tactic by Wakefield to crowd him.
The Cas 2017 comparison entered my mind as well. They dominated the league but fell flat in the final. Ultimately if we end up in the final and we're close to full strength then Id fancy us.
We got the 2 points, we’re still in the hunt for the top 6 with nearly half our team missing. What does worry me as a RL is that a lot of your team will be representing England at the end of the year, a team that got dominated by a pack full of SR’s. Marshall, Wardle, Smith, Thompson, O’Neill, Nsemba, Havard, Dupree, Byrne will all be in the mix.
I've not followed your debate on here but in regards to that point, I wouldn't worry too much. With all due respect to Wakey and all of Wigan's other opponent's in recent weeks/months, the Wigan players just aren't mentally switched on at the minute and the performances they're dishing up currently will be a world away from the ones come August/September, just as they were around this time in 2024, 2023 and 2022. There is no way guys like Dupree and Byrne make the England squad anyway but the rest likely will and they'll be extremely important for us. I wouldn't concentrate on their form as of now, I'd go back and watch the versions of them that played in Vegas, at HKR away or in all the finals they've played in during the previous 3 years.
It's hard to not belittle just how good Wakey were the other night in being honest but the honest answer is that games away at Wakey, in Dewsbury, at Salford etc just aren't exciting the Wigan players. Matt Shaw, the RL journalist, had it right when he said they look almost bored at the minute. Wakey were brilliant, deserved the win (and the scoreline flattered us) and the work going on at the club is so impressive and really pleasing to see. It's a world away from 5-10 years ago and I think the new owner will look at HKR and think he can do something similar in the coming years.
I take your point about the players not performing at their peak, but thats a concerning lack of professionalism and is unfair on the fans who pay to watch and the coaching staff.
Interesting POV but a bit unfair, maybe consider that statement could be applied to ALL teams at times? and that the "better" teams are better at limiting the number and timing of those games? Are Wigan more professional or less professional?
I've been reading the debate about Wakefield rise, as a fan of the game I'd love to see it, Having a successful team in as many cities/big towns as possible is good for the game. Wakefield and Wigan are about the same size so hey, why not?
There are no certainties but I still feel confident that we will start to build for the back end of the season. We have been here before, even in the middle of last years clean sweep we were soundly beaten in a few games.
Of course I'd like to win everything, and I'm sure the players would too, but as we've heard from Peet in the past the focus in training will be very different now to the last 2 months of the season.
French is an interesting case, and has been joked about in the past likes his time off in the off season, and imo this is one of the reasons he probably wouldn't be in such demand back in the NRL as he comes across as too casual at times. He certainly seems to have been playing at 3/4 capacity this season, but again he's a player who if managed the right way can do things other players can't get near.
Re teh Wakey game, hats off to them, they've been great since the start of the season which is no mean feat on their first season back in the SL. They are playing some great rugby and have a committed attitude across the park making them hard to beat. Easily the better team last weekend.
French is an interesting case, and has been joked about in the past likes his time off in the off season, and imo this is one of the reasons he probably wouldn't be in such demand back in the NRL as he comes across as too casual at times. He certainly seems to have been playing at 3/4 capacity this season, but again he's a player who if managed the right way can do things other players can't get near.
Jai Field was on Sky Sports News with Jenna Brooks and Jon Wilkin a few months ago and I thought his jokey comments about French were a bit revealing. They asked something like if things got competitive between them for most trys in the season or who was the fastest (something along those lines) and Field laughed and said the team have a job on to get French to be competitive in matches, let alone with things like that. Ultimately the lad can do as he pleases, as long as he turns up when it matters and he will do that and has done that in spades. He's quite comfortably the most talented player in the league and if he did have that week to week competitive edge, he likely wouldn't be here and would be in the NRL (as you suggest).
French is an interesting case, and has been joked about in the past likes his time off in the off season, and imo this is one of the reasons he probably wouldn't be in such demand back in the NRL as he comes across as too casual at times. He certainly seems to have been playing at 3/4 capacity this season, but again he's a player who if managed the right way can do things other players can't get near.
Jai Field was on Sky Sports News with Jenna Brooks and Jon Wilkin a few months ago and I thought his jokey comments about French were a bit revealing. They asked something like if things got competitive between them for most trys in the season or who was the fastest (something along those lines) and Field laughed and said the team have a job on to get French to be competitive in matches, let alone with things like that. Ultimately the lad can do as he pleases, as long as he turns up when it matters and he will do that and has done that in spades. He's quite comfortably the most talented player in the league and if he did have that week to week competitive edge, he likely wouldn't be here and would be in the NRL (as you suggest).
Not that you're saying there is, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with that IMO. Everyone is different and a truly top coach will find the right buttons to press. If I was French, I'd struggle for a game at some backwater hole too.
Going back a bit, but it's apparently still a lesson not learnt - this issue was one of Madge's biggest coaching flaws. He struggles with anyone who isn't 100% in, all of the time. Safe to say, he'd have probably have had a run in with French
The point on French is well made - one of the straws that broke the camel's back in the NRL was a game where he had a total of one carry throughout the entire 80 minutes. He's clearly not the best trainer and there are clearly games which he coasts through. I guess opinions will vary on that. Some would say as a professional sportsman its your job to be giving 100% every game, others might say that as long as he performs in the bigger games then does it matter too much. Maybe there are others in the team who fall into this category - those who struggle with the week to week because they believe they will finish in the top 2 regardless or perhaps there's a lack of motivation given what was achieved last year and all of the big games that came with that.
Regardless, its no mystery as to why French's best games this year have been Vegas and Hull KR away. He needs something to inspire him and I can sympathise that in SL you don't always get that every week.
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