I struggle to buy all this 'our moves are old and have been figured out' or 'we do nothing different from 2010' .. oh yes we do, our core skills are appalling. You don't need fancy moves to score a try. You need the ball moved at pace and with precision onto runners hitting the line at the correct time. That creates space and overlaps to score. we then need people with a brain cell to recognise those gaps and overlaps. Sadly we are lacking in all those areas. The aussies are not magic, they do the basics very well. we are incapable of passing the ball correctly.

excuses about Williams inexperience are fine, they cover up brain fart decisions, not being able to see space or making decision at the wrong time...that comes with experience..... they do not cover the 4/5 passes he put to ground at Salford and again at Brisbane. they are inexcusable basics every professional player should have. This goes for Smith and the rest of the team. Our best ball passer is Lockers.

we need to spend less time in the gym, less time wresting each other to death and more time doing the basics.

that's my humble opinion.

Goonie is probably better.

For a first post that's quite a vociferous one. One that you didn't back up with any real reasoning.

If i was to take a complete stab in the dark i would say you are a 15/16 year old Saints fan.

Dave O got it, for me.

At present, there is not a proper centre in the entire Wigan club.

Sarginson is useless, Gelling is less than useless 50% of the time - which is too much, and Oli, though I thought he played well against Salford, is too small.

I too would be prepared to push Gelling into the pack, and maybe give Isa a go in the centre (and let Sarginson go to RU). But I'd rather we signed a couple of seasoned centres. Hardly an ideal solution, but it seems like the only one at present.

And where do we get these "seasoned centres" that everybody is trying to get rid of?

And how is Isa any better than Gelling at centre? If we wanted a solid, boring centre that doesn't pass to his winger, we should've kept Jack Hughes and played him there.

Are we being a bit too hasty with Sarginson here?
Decent players don't become poor ones overnight. I still think he can do a job to a good standard (unless his mind is elsewhere, ala Chris Ashton).

I suppose we've got to go and look for them. We got Carmont in that fashion - from an unexpected source where no one else was looking.

I'm not saying it would be easy. But I feel it's been apparent that we've needed a couple of decent centres for several years now. We missed a cracker only a month or so ago, with Justin Carney.

Ultimately, I just don't think these two are good enough. Gelling is too unreliable, and Sarginson is very average. And when they are not available, we have to play second-rowers there. Surely we can do better than that? It really is a bit of a crisis.

That said, I will admit that if we could get a new scrum-half instead, I'd happily go with that, because I fear we have an even bigger crisis in the halves.

I was impressed with Josh Griffin the Salford centre.
Quite rugged but tough, bit of pace and makes a lot of yards, can tackle hard, very hard.
Got good game awareness too.
Whether we at Wigan can improve him to the extent Sheens has is another matter altogether.

Griffin was much improved prior to Sheens taking over so I wouldn't give him much credit for that. It's his aggression that take him on a level IMO. His brother has also come on leaps and bounds and they sum up the Salford resurgence.

Griffin's defence is questionable though. Gelling skinned him a few times.

Strangely he switched sides in the game (maybe at half time) from the left to the right.

He is also a great goal kicker.