Any coach stupid enough to take on a job where they do not have full control of player recruitment deserves criticism. He is paid to deliver results no one can do that with one arm tied behind their back. I dont believe this is the case. Wane has full control and has failed miserably.

Why all the talk about next season? We've only played 6 games so far in this one. Imo we only need a small improvement to become a contender and with the troops yet to return I'm not writing us off yet. I say again, the quality of Superleague being what it is means we are still in with a chance of success this year. As crap as we were against Leeds we should have been buried. Trouble is, every team in the comp is poor!

Stop talking sense - this won't go down well!

Even if we lose to Saints (I'm not saying we will) - we can win against Wakey, Salford and Catalans, and by my reckoning we will be in 4th place or thereabouts. Something to build on for sure.

Our period of dominance in the late 80s and early 90s was achieved with a policy of the board and not the coach making the signings so we must have had quite a few stupid coaches by your reasoning back then. They seem to have managed to deliver results. To be a success a coach doesn't necessarily need to have chosen the squad he has at his disposal. He just needs to be able to organise their play in a way that fits the strengths of those players he has and does not rely on areas of the game at which they are weaker.

Perhaps we are currently struggling to adapt the style of play after the loss of some personnel with strengths we no longer have and will soon fix it. Perhaps the person(s) responsible for recruitment policy has made error(s) in their approach that are now cumulatively costing us as the team is just less capable of competing at the top. Maybe it is a bit of both. Either way some mistakes have been made somewhere, making mistakes is fine, everyone does that at some point. It is recognising that you have made mistakes and how you react to those mistakes that matters. The people in charge at the club (board and coach) have done alright so far so I am confident that what is currently not right will be fixed. It just remains to be seen how that fix is achieved.

Hang on a second: I said Wigan seem underpowered in the front row. This does not equate to writing Wigan off because the club still possesses quality players. And I agree, the competition seems mediocre. It's a lengthy season and injuries will undoubtedly go a long way toward deciding who finishes in the top 4.

Strange thing is, I seem to recall that most people on here pre-season were saying how strong the squad looked, and particularly the pack. They just haven't got going yet, but it's hard to believe they've all turned into no hopers in that time.

I think that's pretty offensive to the rest of the league to be honest with you. The problem for you is that we were pretty bad on the night too. If we'd turned it on like we did against Hull, with passes sticking and our left hand side (Hall and Ablett especially) not having their worst game in memory, then the result could have got embarrassing for you. Not every team in the competition is poor, there is no stand out excellent team like there has been in the past, but you'll need Leeds and Saints to fall off a cliff before either side is as poor as Wigan have been in the opening 6 games. One or two players performing poorly would require a small improvement, but realistically how many of your lot can walk around with any pride in their recent performances?

I think you are right about how it used to be in that I remember very well John Monie wanted to sign Phil Blake but Mo delivered him Frano Botica instead. Monie was quite frank he was baffled as to why Wigan would sign a player unproven at the game compared to Blake. He just got on with the job and look how that turned out.

However that was back then but what about now? Wane seemed very keen to play Williams at 6 and decided even with one being long term injured we didn't need any new centres over Thornley, Gelling and Sarge. Were those decisions forced upon him or, as I suspect, they were his idea in the first place?



Do you think Wane has recognised these mistakes? You said yourself "He just needs to be able to organise their play in a way that fits the strengths of those players he has " and do you honestly think he is doing this? I don't because we keep playing the same way, week in week out. He is trying to play the same game that brought success before with players who can't execute the tactics. Our passing is shocking and the fast lateral moving the ball along the line requires accurate passing. Bowen is not Sam Tomkins but he is trying to use him exactly the same way.

As to the pack there are some big lads in it so I don't think size is an issue but they spread out and don't tackle as a unit so are not putting players on their backs in defense and if you look at the stats they don't do many meters or carries on attack but not in my opinion because they are being stopped dead but because they move it wide very often.

To me it looks like the last thing Wane is doing is organising the teams play in a way that fits the strengths of those players he has.

It may be when Flower and Lockers return the old tactics deliver more success than they are doing now but what if Lockers is injured again and why in his and Flowers absence hasn't Wane adapted the game plan to the players he [ihas[/i got available?

I wasn't trying to be offensive (for a change

) but just calling it as I see it. I was watching NZ Warriors this weekend with Tomkins, Leulai and Hoffman in their ranks, all of whom stroll into virtually any team in SL. What have we replaced that trio with? Add to that any other talented Brit apart from those at Leeds are willing to chance their arm in the NRL or RU with no comparable talent coming the other way and the results are there for all to see. I agree we have a more even comp, but quality wise we are miles off. Your best forward is a journeyman NRL player - need I say more?

All that said, (and admittedly this is going O/T a bit) the NRL is hardly at a creative peak either. In fact, you could argue it the other way too (Superleague 'journeyman' like Hodgson, L'Estrange, Soliola are getting rave reviews there). The Big Three at Melbourne are all ageing, as is Thurston. Sam B has gone, as has Hayne. In terms of current superstars, well, they still have Inglis, and DCE and Shaun Johnson are wonderful talents, but too early to be called 'great' yet.

Very true and I think we all need to be patient. I'm frustrated and hate to see us struggle like we are but we're too good not to find form at some point and when we do we'll get ourselves back in the hunt for trophies.

What we do need to do is fight out hardest to stay right in the mix for that 4th spot whist our form isn't good. I look at the fixtures this weekend and I think a few above us will lose so if we can get a win (even a scrappy one pointer) we could get up to 4th/5th. That mentally takes some pressure off and sets us up for the week after.