As a Saints fan I can't believe I'm saying this but I don't think things are too bad for you yet. Confidence looks low but doesn't take much at times to turn that around with the right people to lead you.

The main thing I think you're missing is a true leader on the field & a bit of organisation. With SOL being out injured it is highlighting the fact that Blake Green has not been replaced as a leader & organiser. Matty Smith has never really been that type of player & Williams is young & learning his trade. I don't really see any vocal leader in the pack either.

The stats from your props is concerning but that's where someone like SOL would blast them & get them rolling forward.

This all lends itself to low confidence when things aren't going right & almost every player dips in form.

Getting SOL back & keeping him fit is huge for you this year unless there is cap space to bring someone in to lead & take control of the team on the field. You've got to try & find that type of player as well.

Well that's putting the most optimistic gloss possible on it, Noggy, but even if you're right, we have to accept that SOL will play fewer and fewer games as he comes to the end of his career. We can't just say, "We were unlucky; Lockers was injured", the writing has been on the wall for a long time.

Maybe it is optimistic moto478 but it's not like you were miles away last year & has the turnover of players been so drastic (not sure of your player ins & outs) ?

Saints lost a mountain of leaders a few years back & they are not easy to replace. You go through some desperate times when you're lacking these types of players. Maybe SW needs to challenge some players to step up in those leadership roles, maybe he has & they are not delivering.

That's why Travis Burns has been a great signing for Saints this year. He's organised, he's a leader, he's competitive & has a bit of an edge about him. He's gone mental a couple of times at forwards this year when they've knocked on.

I've been watching Burns since he and Luke Walsh were a team at the Panthers (and back then, neither of them were much rated in Australia). Personally I never liked him much, but that's because of the niggley kind of player he is (like McIlorum, if you will). He's always looked at risk of a yellow, and I always thought Walsh was the better footballer by some distance, and furthermore, expected him to flourish in the slightly more attacking style of SL compared to the NRL. Which, bar injuries, he has.

But, back to Burns, I agree that what he is is a competitor. He was for HKR and he is now. We need someone in that mould, and at the moment, the only one even on the horizon in that respect, as far as I can see, is Bateman.

Agree with what you say about Walsh & Burns.

Sometimes you have to just accept some of those yellow & even red cards now & then. Any team definitely needs that type of player if you want to be successful.

George Williams provided the only creative spark of the night, putting in a perfectly weighted kick to Burgess for a try.

Perhaps you'd switched off by then?

To be fair to Patrick he got taken off after a clash of heads didn't he?

He did but he came back on afterwards.

Yep, it was a clash of heads with Clubb IIRC. I'm sure no vital organs were damaged however.

I'm not defending by any means those shocking stats but the Wane game plan is to spread the ball wide irrespective of field position and at any time in a game, it's no wonder the props stats are so bad, our/wanes game plan has never really suited a forward game, but at the minute we could do with simplyfying it and keep it tight in the middle, to try and gain some go forward and reduce the amount of errors where producing

Perhaps you could not be so condescending? this a forum, I shared my opinion. If you do not agree with that is fine, you like everyone else on here are entitled to their opinion.
if you are referring to his kick over the top for Burgess try, yes that was great and in my opinion 10 seconds of magic in 80 minutes is not good enough. In my opinion SW is to blame for Williams being chucked in at the deep end with a poor recruitment strategy but he is what we have and therefore will come in for scrutiny. That is life.