Quote: Phuzzy "Mate, given my previous girlfriend was black, I think there's only one jackass here and that's the one throwing spurious accusations around.
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im not sure what at one point having a black girlfriend was supposed to prove, im also not sure what I accused you of other than [ifor no good reason whatsoever putting their right and for some unknown reason necessity to use archaic language ahead of offending other people. [/i I didnt accuse you of being racist. I used 'you' in hypothetical scenarios. If you did think i was accusing you of being racist then i apologise (see, its not difficult)
Quote: Phuzzy "I'll answer your post but please moderate your language. I put plenty thought into the words I use (I'm a musician and writer by trade) and if something is racist then I wouldn't use it. However something being racist is NOT the same as someone mistakenly thinking it is. The phrase in question is not, and never has been, a racist slur. The examples you use regarding tarring and feathering have nothing to do with the phrase. It is a nautical saying based on the practice of 'tarring the decks' of ships. I'm sorry if you wish to doctor every phrase to fit your agenda but I'm afraid, in this case, you're wrong. If you don't wish to use it because you mistakenly believe it to be racist then that is your prerogative. However there is no obligation for anyone else to make the same mistake. I understand that you believe everyone should speak and act as you do. This is not the case. It is called freedom of speech and is the cornerstone of democracy and civil rights. '"
Here is your problem, you are not the arbiter of what other people are offended by. You cannot decide that a phrase is or isnt racist. You can have your opinion but that isnt definitive. And yes, you are entitled to free speech, but one of the integral parts of having free speech, is remembering other are free to judge you for what you say.
I don't believe that you have to speak and act as i find appropriate. But how you speak and act will influence my opinion of you.
Once again, you can say whatever you want, but if you say something which offends someone, you can insist all you want, for ever and a day, that it isnt racist, that it isnt offensive, that the other person is wrong and you are right and that they are wrong to be offended. The fact is they are still offended and are likely to judge you on your insistence on using words and phrases they find offensive, judge you on your arguments in favour of their use and maybe that judgment will describe you as a type of person you dont wish to be described as. That is their freedom.
Quote: Phuzzy "Now on to your apparent indignation regarding causing offence. I recently spent some time browsing the Leeds board and there was one particular thread that caught my eye. In it there was constant reference to Shaun Wane as 'The Ape' and similar, even going as far as to post pictures of a gorilla in a suit alongside pictures of Shaun. I know you are a regular poster on that board and I believe you even posted on that thread. Could you please point me to your angry response to this blatantly offensive thread because I must have missed it. Indeed, let me ask you a question; had Shaun been black would you have been equally apathetic? Would you have found it equally acceptable to post a picture of a gorilla in a suit alongside the picture of a black player or coach? Do you not think Shaun, his friends, family and children deserve the same freedoms from offensive posts as everyone else? For the record, I find your kind of selective and hypocritical indignation offensive. I'll assume an apology is forthcoming...'"
Whataboutery is often the last flame of failed argument.
If someone had posted a picture of a Gorilla in a suit next to a picture of a black man then there is obvious racism in there that isnt relevant to a picture of white man. It really shouldnt need to be explained why it is different.
You are of course free to argue that it is selective, or hypocritical. That it is just as offensive to see shaun wane compared to an ape as a black man. You are free to argue that anyone who doesnt agree is wrong, or oversensitive.
People on the other side of that may see your argument as ignorant and offensive. They may see it as quite offensive to see people equating a head coach at the top of a professional sport where there are 0 black head coaches being compared to a gorilla to the years and years of systematic and public indignities that image was used to put upon all black people. They may find the idea quite distasteful that a relatively rich and successful free white man in a stable western democracy is affected by that image as a black man would considering those images were, for hundreds of years, used as justification for some of the most abhorrent things mankind has ever done under Slavery.
The reason i wont apologise here, is i dont care if you think i am selective or hypocritical in my indignation. If thats what you think, thats what you think. Im comfortable with it.
If i had come across as ignorant, or bigoted on the other hand.............