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FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Plan B Mr Wane? |
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Beaten, bullied, out played.
Our attack seems highly predictable, seems to be the same movement every week, half/dummy runner to half/dummer runner to Sam linking up from the back causing a 3 v 2 overlap with Daz and Josh on his outside. From this we seem to get either Sam dummy and go, pass to Daz or cut out ball to Josh. (Of course this movement is evident on the other side of the pitch with George etc).
9/10 it works against lesser teams. its fast and with Sam's ability we score from it. But against a good coach it becomes transparent. Wire easily cancelled out our best attacking weapon (Sam) simply by having JM cut in and stop the moment when Sam is about to take on the ball. Regardless of such predictably there was no plan B.
In contrast when St George were coached by Wayne Bennett they perfected the moment whereas the defence had no idea who was going to run, who was going to be the dummy runner and who was going to finish with the ball.
They used Soward to break away, from here the defence would not know if he's going to take on the line or pass, with this he had a SR Ben Creagh alongside with Cooper and Morris as an attacking centre/winger partnership. To add another threat Boyd joined the line from FB. At this point any of the mentioned could be the ball carrier, anyone the dummy runner. When the 5 attack down the flank in a line the 3/4 of the opposition would be scared to death of what was going to come next.
We don't have such movement, we look predictable, basically cancel Sam and you've stopped our attack, with StG if Boyd was stopped one of the others would be still a threat.
I think we have the players to create something different, the drills need to be practised and coached, I barely see any other pattern, we play into the oppositions hands.
Warrington like to throw the 'first punch' hit us hard and keep on the pressure from the get-go, the opposition tire from tackle after tackle and become vulnerable and exposed, and of course when you're tired you are more likely to make mistakes. This happened, it's almost as if Wane fires up certain players so much they lose their heads, case in point Micky.
This season Micky has proven his ability as a top 9, however, at times, when fired up he seems more concerned with intensity and letting us all know how 'ard he is' rather than keeping a cool head. If he was a backrower it would be different, but as a 9 you must have composure and awareness, I for one have never ever seen Cam Smith lose his cool, today of all days, playing with just a single 9 he had to be so in-control, I feel he wasn't, (at one point he was rolling on the floor with Moz to show us how 'ard he is'.
This created such a negative impact, at times when we needed to generate momentum getting on a roll with the forwards we never did, Micky wasn't at the races. If he cooled down and became a 'game leader' rather that an enforcer we'd would have had more chance of winning the arm-wrestle.
The forwards were rattled, Wire brought an 'origin esque' attitude, a winning mentality which has been inspired by their coach and key on on field leaders, Morley showed his calibre and leadership which Hill followed with great effect. Westwood showed his winning desire and played for his life. Excellent mentality throughout.
In opposition to this who are actually our leaders? Lockers, love him, great player, but leader? Undecided. We have some excellent props but who's the enforcer/leader? If one of the props matched Morley maybe Micky wouldn't feel the need to enforce from 9. Eric for me was the best player, he brought it, pity Mossop didn't stand up, and I think it's about time Prescott was pushed to one side for other props, can't remember seeing a prop lose the ball so much on impact. Lima worked hard but he needs more support.
Hock is 'origin' in his approach but seems to have trouble raising intensity without losing his head, with this Wane panics and takes him off.
We don't seem mentally ready. Maybe Wane's I'll shout them down get angry until they play better approach isn't always the best way to deal with a beaten team. We almost seem nervous and afraid of Wire, we shouldn't be.
It's time for a plan B, more options in attack with a strong steel mentality which shows no fear, no backing down. Won't lose our heads or temperament but we'll tackle so hard they will be scared to take the line on.
Let this loss be the wake up call.'" Great post,I believe SW should stop trying to"make his mark on his team" and revert to the staturgy MM used to use defensively.
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| Quote: Ian 77 Redux "Here it is (albeit that the game is goverened by laws, not rules)
passed the ball forward in relation to himself. This is particularly noticeable when a running player makes a high, lobbed pass.
It doesn't matter if the ball travels forward. It matters if it was passed forward. You might not like it, it may fry your brain, but it's a fact. Now, chances are, if the ball travels forwards the ball was passed forward but it's not a pre-requisite.'"
“Momentum rule” is Stevo’s term NOT MINE and not wishing to be rude, but within the contexts of the argument about a forward pass, what does it matter if “HE” uses the wrong word, be it rule, or law I’m sorry but this point just seems to be splitting a hair to no purpose. IF A BALL LEAVES THE PASSER HANDS IN FRONT OF THOSE HANDS, IT IS A FORWARD PASS. It doesn’t matter where the bloke who catches is! In the stand, in the dressing room or on the moon, because by then the game should have been stopped for an infringement.
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Today the top two teams in SL played. One dominated the other setting the benchmark for the league. Previous to that they beat Saints another top contender. I think it would be unusual to watch both games and consider past history more prevalent to recent performances.'"
A good post and I understand your point, but in saying that, if Wire lose to London this week does that still make them the best team in SL or would that be London because they have had a recent run of good form. Games will be affected by many things, injuries, suspension and rotation. Wigan have shown that form may be transient, only at the end of the season will we know which team was the most competent, till then it’s just snap shots of form.
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| Quote: Geoff "Very true, and what most of us have been saying. Having said that, those stats doesn't take number of carries into account, and the lack of possession we had (due to our own mistakes) meant yours got way more carries than ours. I was impressed with Hill, though - you've got a good one there.'"
taking carries into account
warrington top 3 meter makers (ratch excluded as he is the anomaly due to length field try)
westwood - 20 carries totaling 157m gain = average 7.85m per carry
hill -15 carries totaling 122m gain = average 8.1m per carry
morley - 14 carries totaling 110m gain = average 7.85m per carry
wigan top 3 meter makers
lima - 16 carries totaling 92m gain = average 5.75m per carry
o'loughlin - 18 carries totaling 74m gain = average 4.1m per carry
hansen - 11 carries totaling 62m gain = average 5.6m per carry
interestingly though i only used forwards but 4 0f the top 8 top meter makers for wigan are backs but i think that just shows the way that the warrington kicking game pinned you back as they will be kick return meters.
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| Quote: pies-r-us "A good post and I understand your point, but in saying that, if Wire lose to London this week does that still make them the best team in SL or would that be London because they have had a recent run of good form. Games will be affected by many things, injuries, suspension and rotation. Wigan have shown that form may be transient, only at the end of the season will we know which team was the most competent, till then it’s just snap shots of form.'"
London aren't in the top 2, Wigan and Wire are. Over the course of the season we gain an impression who has performed the best via league positions.
1st played 2nd, 2nd dominated 1st. I don't think being in the top two now is simply a snap shot in of form considering we are now in Aug.
Now seriously, who do you think are the top two team in SL? Do you think perhaps London? Do you honestly think London have a chance of winning the league or GF?
Please. don't try to debate for the sake of debating. This is getting a little silly now.
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "London aren't in the top 2, Wigan and Wire are. Over the course of the season we gain an impression who has performed the best via league positions.
1st played 2nd, 2nd dominated 1st. I don't think being in the top two now is simply a snap shot in of form considering we are now in Aug.
Now seriously, who do you think are the top two team in SL? Do you think perhaps London? Do you honestly think London have a chance of winning the league or GF?
Please. don't try to debate for the sake of debating. This is getting a little silly now.'"
Please do not take offence when none was meant. I only expanded your comments to show how another point of view could be put to your words. Debate is what these forums are for, you should not expect to have your say and then ask for others to accept it without comment, that’s not what it’s all about, and anyway I only passed comment once. Again I was not stirring it, or trying to be offensive, and after all I did say it was a good post in the first place
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