He could even organise tours and even the odd[failed] expansion team..kent...scarbrough...failed welsh team etc

I was under the impression that its the heartland clubs that are generating poor crowds in the playoffs, as always this somehow gets blamed on Catalan and Celtic. If the Wakefield-Catalan fixture had taken place in Perpignan the crowd could have been twice what it was. I dont think its beyond the pale to suggest that a Celtic home playoff game would have beaten 4,000 either.
If clubs that have been around for a century can't establish a decent fan base or build a half decent ground then i'd say theres something wrong with the way the club is being run rather than the game itself.

Sorry not commenting on all that. Sounds like you have forgotten where the game was before Sky.
Its quicker just to say you prefer how it was prior to 1996, and you don't want expansion.
With this fixed in your head how will you ever take on board new ideas to keep the game alive at professional level.
RU and football dwarfs what the RFL take in.

I think what you say isn't totally true. The gates aren't great, but I think further back in the thread gave an indication of the possible whys. Top 6 should have been retained to give that achievement some prestige. This top 8 thing is too much......a team qualified by losing more than they won for example. The league is only 14 clubs. How many clubs get the 2nd chance this time round ? Its silly to say the least. I'm not saying it wasn't worth trying, but hopefully it will be binned for next season.
2 clubs out of 10 will get promoted from C1 to the Championship - again taking away the prestige of promotion by putting 20% of clubs up.
Fans aren't stupid, especially when their season ticket won't cover the game.

Nice dodge

How or what are these new ideas you believe the rfl are trying?

Less games? right less money

Spreading the game to ????????? whilst clubs go under or now attract crowds comparable with the top amatuer teams

Oh I forget what great advances have we made on the international front???

So come on leigh leigh....list me the benifits the game as had whilst under sky

Please show us the advances the sport as made in this country under it please

I've listed the downfall...I just want one of you believers to convince us its for the best...over to you

Rome wasn't built in a day as I said further back. Where have I said the game has made it ?
In 1895 the Northern Union was formed. What a brave decision that was, and how grateful we are that they did what they did.
To also get that decision that was made rubber stamped 100 years later by RU when they finally admitted we was right after all by becoming professional too.
Only problem was while RL was picking off Unions best players while they was just an amateur game before, they would then have to fend Union off our players backed by much more money than league. Good job we moved to summer and Sky came to the rescue at perfect time.
Its very easy now to just dismiss Skys contribution to the game. Its also very easy to look back at 80's/90's fondly and think we should go back to how it was, and forget what was round the corner.

LL, what was round the corner?

A rosey future built on competitive Ashes series, record test gates and a product that Sky wanted to get a return on.

No wonder the play off gates are down.
It took Dave Woods 5 mins to explain it last night on BBC2, And after all the explaining everyone in our pub said - so how does the playoffs work in SL this year

In summer season yes. Not a winter sport as they had that covered. I have been to lots of tests in SL era, and the atmosphere have been great - Elland Road/JJB, Even against NZ the atmosphere was cracking and grounds full.
But unfortunately GB (or England) now just build our hopes up and then do the usual. Which are having a big effect on gates now
But there isn't a quick fix to this. Glory-fying an era gone by isn't something to learn from because the sporting landscape has changed beyond recognision to them days.

As to Ad's comment about what is round the corner, just read my post again.

Crowds like 70000 at Wembley and sell outs at OT and Elland Rd??

Face it more people watched RL pre SL and test gates were much higher. The biggest obstacle facing us was to go FT to compete fully with the Convicts. Most sports were starting to benefit from payt tv (Sky) and so for Sky to court RL was an obvious choice, and one which gives them the best return per viewer of all the majors still.

For all the new fans at Bradford, more were lost at Fax, Keighley, Batley, Dewsbury, Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton, York, Barrow, Workington, Whitehaven, Widnes, Fev and until recently HKR.

We had sell out at Elland Road a few years ago - the best pre game atmosphere I can remember being part of for RL international. It was down hill after the whistle went of course. The fans are still there for when we do finally get the upperhand. The RL spirit for the big occassion has been a long time tradition with the GF and CC getting supported by the neutrals as well as the finalists. When the big day happens we will fill Wembley again.
I am glad you recognise the significants of Sky to our game. That was mainly my point. Take sky away from our history and the game would be in a bad state with Union benefitting.
Regarding losing fans - how many did we lose chasing the holy grail, and when getting there failing to compete ? We have never recovered since and have been going backwards - and still we want to be considered for 2012 even though we are poor at the moment at the level we are at.

Apologies LL, perhpas I wasn't clear. It was this bit I meant. Was, not is.



What was round the corner before Sky came along? I've looked but I don't think you have said.

With your history I never know if you are just being difficult and sarcastic tbh

But my post was aimed originally at "jesus-is-coming" (So come on leigh leigh....list me the benifits the game as had whilst under sky'"