I used to play with a kid who did that almost every week. He would cross his arms and legs and the coach/referee would try to shake loose his arms and legs by lifting him under his arms. We were about 7 years old then, though...

What he said

This is the beauty of any debate.
Different opinions.
I'm just fortunate to have seen Joel, Hicks, Dessie and JB.
BB would have made the set !

I'm the same, but I think Brian Bevan's stats say it all. Has to be the greatest Wire winger ever, would loved to have seen him play.

my reason for saying no is every winger we have had since Brian Bevan (ok with the exceptions of Roach, Fawcett, Parsley, and Andy Bennet) would have scored that interception against widnes.

Joel has an alarming lack of pace..... but he scores tries that no other can due to his physical prowess and knack of knowing exactly where to put himself on a rugby field.

he's a top top player,* hopefully we can replace him with Brett Morris ( ) and we wont have anything to worry about when Joel retires....

(*quote from Brendan Rodgers)

Does the Wire 'system' make wingers look better than they are?

Just asking.

Yeah, it's brilliant! Me and my brother always discuss it, even tried it myself. Not a clue how he gets it so far.

Ask Chris Riley how good Atkins made him look earlier this season.

The Joel throw in the warm up always amazes me as well.

To be honest this just goes to show you don't need blinding pace to be a first class winger.

Or you can have binding pace with some other attributes and be a first class winger.

Joel has been one of the best this year and I'm more than happy with him - even given his pace.

Exactly, pace is overrated.

Most tries are not length of the field tries, even from the fastest wingers. A top winger is one that can finish off moves, can beat players in the air for kicks, can round and step defenders from 5 to 15 yards out, is too strong to get knocked in to touch and unless a chasing tackler can get the tackle spot on, will have the strength to push them away en route to the line.

A top winger is also one that runs the ball up in his own half so he takes the pressure off his forwards and lets them have a breather. He's strong enough and fit enough to make yards from dummy half and run into a wall of opposition forwards repeatedly without getting bashed up, dragged in to touch or spilling the ball.

And a top winger is one that doesn't make the opposition halfbacks light up with excitement that they have a target that will be an easy source of tries if they bomb it and put enough pressure on.

I'll have a player like that any day ahead of a guy with pace, if he can't do those things above.

Keep your Nicky Royle, Kevin Penny, Graham Appo, Richie Barnett, Craig Calvert, Leroy Rivett, I will have Monaghan or Fa'afili over them any day of the week.

Notice that the top sides don't use those flaky speedsters. They might get a winger with genuine pace sometimes, but they can always do those things above...like Brett Dallas, Scott Donald or Darren Albert.

I'm not sure where all this talk of Chris Hicks being really fast comes from. I'd like to be corrected, because I really liked Hicks, but I can't recall him scoring any blistering tries when playing for us.

Fa'afili, brave choice, I thought he was good, some people not so much though.

Never rated him, but I always say a winger is only as good as his centre. Fa'afili played inside of an international class Gleeson at the time hence his try scoring record.

Bevan outide Challinor
Hicks/Joel outside Bridge.

Atkins and.....well the centre needs to be able pass too!

Hicks was allegedly clocked at 10.88 seconds for the 100 metres.