...and Smith let him go and he was eventually replaced by Russell.

Riley was no world beater but he had a better all round game IMO. Although Russell does kick returns better and is stronger from dummy half, which suited Smith’s style of play.

I’m not one of the anti-Russell gang but I can’t help agree their arguments at this present time. Certainly wouldn’t do any harm to try Brown there knowing the speed of Wigan’s wingers. Marshall could have a field day again.

But my point is how do you know that Brown will do a better job? It’s possible that he could do a worse job. Price sees them both day in, day out, if he thought Brown was better he would have him in, he holds no sentiment for any player after 3 games. It’s a bit like when there were calls for Prell to play from people who have never seen him in action.

Just watched the game again which is always useful.

I couldn't help watching Matty Russell after the comments on the forum. He lost the ball in the tackle early on. He dropped a high ball in the first half ... which was very difficult and anybody could have dropped and he cocked up a play the ball towards the end of the game. He looked a handful and made useful yards several times and made a super run in the 75th minute.
He does tend to really rush to play the ball and he probably ought to slow down a bit to ensure he plays it correctly. He needs to relax.
As usual weaknesses of our players do get wildly exaggerated. We watch our players so closely so we spot weaknesses but often fail to see similar problems with other teams.

I'll just go and get my tin hat.

Bumped off a 50/50 ball mid air by a winger with 1 SL game under his belt. Lack of finishing in the corner.

It's not about looking at Russell one game at a time, it's about performance's over the last X months. He isn't good enough to be a top 4 winger. Why should we, as fans, settle for it? He isn't a kick option and he's not someone I'd look to get the ball to on the 6th tackle. He's also not someone in want chasing back to stop a game changing try. I want my winger to score and prevent tries. He does neither.

I'll stop posting about him now, for my own sanity!!!

I think your right. I got flak for seeing something akin.
I did say he hasn't contributed to a loss.
I do think it's good time to try Mitch Brown though. FMC gave his counter post and makes a fair case that I can't argue with.

Matt Russell has scored 30 tries in 4 seasons at Wire, which is an average of less than 8 tries per season.

Just NOT good enough, for any team that has ambitions to win trophies

This is at the heart of the issue. As a kick returner or scooter he is very good. As a winger he is not.

Boss Hog has made one of the most valid points over the last couple of weeks on the issue of Russell. 8 try's a year isn't good enough . Marshal got four against us in 1 game. We need to find an alternative if we are to push on for top 4.

I think he got 7 in 180 mins against us last season?

I'm not a fan of Russell but he does return a kick well assuming he doesn't knock it on. But that isn't really what I want from a winger. I want someone who is great under a high ball in attack and defence - Russell isn't. I want someone who can break a tackle and get away from the defence - Russell can't. I want someone who can create excitement and beat a man - Russell can't. I want someone who can score 15+ tries a season even with poor service - the good wingers can manage to do this - Russell can't.

He tries hard and I can't fault his work ethic but that isn't enough for a team that wants to be higher than the middle 8's.

But then look at Atkins. His try scoring is exceptional for a centre. Only Keith Senior has more tries as a centre in the last twenty years.

But then Atkins can’t pass so either never passes even when he should or throws it behind Russell or into touch through abysmal technique and decision making. If anyone else had played the last four years outside Atkins would they have faired much better?

Russell can break a tackle and get away from the defence. He does it every week. He did it at a hugely crucial time in the game on Friday.

I can’t find stats from last year for some reason but in 2016 he made 81 tackle busts and made 1979 metres.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think he’s a great player. I don’t think any of our outside backs (maybe bar Goodwin) are great specialists for their position and could all be replaced with far greater quality quite easily. But the amount of stick Russel gets is unwarranted and is just one of those lazy, easy scapegoat, situations.

I think Ratchford is too quiet and doesn’t organise the defence enough, he isn’t a good defender, he’s poor at bringing the ball off the line and is lazy and makes silly mistakes. I think Atkins is sometimes brain dead, and he can’t pass. I think Lineham is positionalky questionable in defence and attack and is also sometimes brain dead making stupid mistakes. None of the three are specialists of the position they play in our team. Two are out of position (Ratchford and Atkins) for me and Lineham has only played the game a short amount of time. They are all as good or bad at their positions as Russell (who isn’t a winger by trade neither) is for me, whether they are all better all round players is another matter.

For me I’d have Ratchford at centre or loose and have a proper specialist full back brought in. I’d have Atkins in the back row as he’s a good defender and a good runner of the ball and replaced at centre by Ratchford or a specialist. Then you could replace our two wingers with most wingers in the league who had played there since U10s rather than a few years.

I also think we’ve nearly got as many holes in the pack. I have no idea how Westwood is still here, I think he’d struggle to get into Championship teams. Ratchford or Atkins should have his place in the back row. Our props are slow and don’t have blistering power, we hardly ever see any tackle busts from our props.

The whole squad is lacking quality and specialism and certain qualities. I’d argue only Currie and Clark would get into any team and the whole rest of the squad is fairly average (I’ll wait a little while before seeing how good Goodwin and Roberts are, they may well be two others).

There’s a reason why we’ve had two poor seasons in the last three (one good one being when all the decent sides had injuries or lost the plot). It’s not because we have great players all over the pitch. It’s because our long term building of the squad, recruitment, selling or ending contracts, since the superstar team of 2010-2013 left, has been haphazard at best, poor in reality.

Lineham Riley have done much better he is only outside atkins this year so what's his excuse for previous seasons?

Atkins is not Russels problem, Russel is limited to say the least, IMO we need a new winger to replace him and I would play anyone we have in reserve over him to see if they are worth keeping. We need as much b cap space as possible next off season.

Well if Russell keeps his place another week, it's one he'll of a game for him to prove himself in.
In at the deep end vs Pies.

He won't prove himself though, wouldn't be surprised if they rip us apart down his wing again. I know people think there is more to come from him but I am definitely not in that camp. His inclusions have left me scratching my head since the start of last season.

The real question should be, is there a better winger in the squad. If there is thenplay him... however the fact that he is being selected by a new head coach with a new assistant would suggest there isn't. Selecting a player knowing he is more limited than Russell would be pointless.

I really doubt that steve Price knows the answer to that question and won't until he feels that he has given Russell a fair crack and then explored other options. Playing Matty Russell every week won't tell him about whether potential other options would be worse/ better and I really don't think it will see Matty Russell improve either.

But what he might see in training is that the alternatives have even more fundamental flaws and that Russell is as good as it gets in this squad.

That's just speculation though, you can't say that is definitely the case or what Steve Price actually feels and besides so what if someone doesn't shine in training? In reality its game day that counts and he is responsible to change the team if he thinks the match day 17 needs to be/ can be improved. To be fair I doubt Steve Price is closed minded enough to write everyone but Russell off based on what he has seen in training for the short time he has had the squad together. He has said before he knows what he is getting from Mitch Brown, he almost certainly can't say the same about Russell and so is possibly giving him a fair chance.

I think we should consider that with hours of video analysis, training practices etc. that the coaches involved with Wire i.e. Price, Henderson, Briers, Smith & Agar will (would have been) be well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of each player. I think one or two on our forum show a complete lack of understanding of how coaching and selection works. In addition some are just very repetitive and exceptionally critical considering that it is a forum designed for fans of the game and in particular the Wire.

Blind faith in the coaching setup is dangerous. Also, your theory would mean that no coach ever fails, due to extensive research undertaken. So care to explain why we ended up in the middle 8's last year?

Is this not a conversation by fans about wire player(s)??

I think one or two on this forum show lack of understanding of how online forums work.

Of course I'm speculating, as I have no idea what goes on in training. I HOPE that our coaches know what they are doing and that if there is a viable alternative they would use it.
As for"blind faith" the idea that a player exists in our squad who is an improvement on Russell but the Coach refuses to play for unknown reasons...

Feels like this board hasn't moved on from last season.

Just to illustrate the speculation point.