Dave - I'm not the coach but for me those were the right moves. I don't know what else I'd have done.
Certainly he couldn't keep the same line up - on lhs at least.

To be fair it's not the team line up that's the issue. That was a pretty good set of players out there last night. We are just not a team. In fact we are a much worse team than this time last year.

It is the managers job to create the team element, and he has failed miserably.

This isn't a 2 game losing streak.

Agreed.

Better to have 13 average players playing as a team than 13 individuals playing as individuals.

Actually a couldn't point the finger at any one player last night.
Higham was good and bad (3 tries from 3 pens). Riley was found out for 3 tries, but did pull off a couple of 1 on 1's that stopped tries.

Morley and Carvell really got stuck in and caused problems - particularly in the first half.

I thought it was the right decision to go for two. When we try to run kickable penalties we never complete the set, it happened again in the first half when Vinnie Anderson threw an intercept on the third tackle after trying to run it.

But I agree with the overall sentiment, we need better than Lowes.

The fact that every time the camera pans to him, he's lay flaked out like he's in Benidorm suggests to me he's not quite with it. If he's not 'lay down' he's bemoaning a decision, contrast this with say Justin Morgan (who I can't stand) and the No try from Friday, he didn't agree with the decision, which was key to the match, but he's calm, passive almost.

The fact that we haven't won since August, jeepers. It's not good is it ? 66 pts conceded, would be more like 78 if Long had kicked better last week, that suggests to me the issues we all have raised, or say 'concerns' that we all had have not been rectified, if anything they've magnified.

I think this is the first time I've ever, and I mean ever said anything like this before in regards to anyone at our club, I'm the most patient person but i'm sorry,

Lowes Out !

Act now, save the season, if the reply is 'give him time', he's had since August and we haven't won a game, conceding god knows what, I'd estimate an average taking into account Castleford away, Catalans away twice etc of say 35 points a game. It's not good enough. I believe, rightly or wrongly that the players are (good enough), so give us a coach who proves beyond doubt where the problem lies, get a coach who's credentials cannot be questioned.

The way you play the ruck alone indicates that Lowes is 10 years out of step with the rest of the competition. Only two men into the tackle then slowing the PTB down by pushing the tackled player (several times) as he gets up is only going to lead to the highest penalty counts in the history of the competition. The ref could ewasily have awarded a penalty against you at almost every tackle last night. If you'd had Bentham there would have been 20 penalties for offside as well (Lee Briers was practically in the Cat's backline on some plays).

It annoys me when we do this against saints, as we all know that the only way to do it is to score more points than them!! I bet most of those who sat on them cold steps last year are regretting it so far.

And how negative is that thinking. We need to take the two because we will not complete the set?!! I hope you are being ironic!

For me I would always take an easy 2 points and get the ball back. I thought going for goal was the right choice. If we'd have been taking it way out by the touchline I would have argued for the 6 but from right in front like that I would always take the goal. If we'd have dropped the ball by not going for the penalty everybody would be whinging about us not taking an easy two points.

It's the same with an interception. If you go for it and miss you're an idiot. If you go for it and get it you're a hero.

Damnned if you do and damnned if you don't.

My take on Lowes is that he's (by his own accord) been rushed into a head coach's role. He seemed to spit his dummy out when he was overlooked for the Salford job and immediately left for Warrington (word is/was that he was promised the head coach's job if and when Cullen left).

Now, I'm not doubting he has a great rugby brain, nor do I doubt that he has played under some top quality coaches, but what I am doubting is that he is ready just yet. If we take Mike Gregory for example, after his playing days ended, he went into assistant coaching - he was assistant under Shaun Mcrae at Saints - then onto head coaching at Swinton and coaching England Academy. This way, he was out of the hot seat in terms of media spotlight and pressure from supporters/the board for results, but was cutting his teeth and learning the coaching trade. He didn't coach his first 'big club' untill 2003, when he took charge of Wigan. In the unfortunately brief time he was there, he took a Wigan side that, in all fairness, was little more than average, to a Grand Final (from third) and to a Challenge Cup final.

By contrast, Jimmy Lowes seemingly went straight into Assistant coaching following retirement from playing, then had his heart set on becoming Head Coach. Whether this is a bit of arrogrance, naiivity, or a blend of both, I'm unsure, but I don't feel he is ready for Head Coaching. He sort of reminds me of Tony (Casper) Smith, who made the plunge from assistant at Wakefield to Head Coach after McNally left. I felt that he had a great rugby brain and perhaps looked cut out for coaching, but to jump in so soon and then come up short leaves you with an immediate negative reputation and probably puts an end to your coaching career before it's had chance to really begin.

Agreed 100%

Not really, a change was so obviously needed, what i didn't anticipate was the appointment of Lowes (no experience as a head coach), Nigel Wright (no experience as an assistant) and Nigel Halmshaw (no experience as a head of strength and conditioning).

Agreed.

This post could just have easily been entitled "The Board Don't Know What They're Doing".

They gave Lowes the improved contract and with it the permission to appoint his own backroom team (including his mate from his gym to do the conditioning!). I get the feeling that what is happening on the pitch is a reflection of what is happening throughout the club as a whole - everyone comfortable because they have the backing of Moranovich and no likelihood of being sacked so why should they upset the status quo.

The general management of the club is an absolute sodding joke and has been since we went to the HJ. Bear in mind they got the ground for free so they haven't had to do that much apart from keep it going and they do nothing that makes you think they're worried about anything as they have SM's mandate. Hoyle should be shifted and the rest need to up their game.

If you're reading this Simon I'll be a board non-exec for nothing if you like and ask all the bone questions that you may feel nervous about raising*. I actually don't think it's you who's at fault as you've put the money down but seriously, you need to shake that place up/out or we'll be getting more of the same for this season and the rest.

[size=59* By the way I'm serious.[/size

Here Here good man.

I second your appointment to the board.

The problems are historical which suggests a protected
comfort zone and self interest throughout the club,
unlike saints or leeds we don't identify players to fit
into our shape culture or team spirit because we
currently dont have one.

Being the"money" team we seem to have attracted
the wrong type of mercenary we currently seem
totally devoid of match winners or players that
are capable of turning a game.

Im not the only one who thinks we are further away
than ever from silverware ,cant see any progress
from last year despite having an off season to
work with the players, the defense looks fragile
as ever.

Body language from the coach was poor last night
and there seems to be little or no leadership on
the field,we need the type of lift we got when Andrew
Johns arrived for his brief spell, which raised the
other players game ,unfortunately i think a clear
out is now necessary no more 4 year deals unless
its exceptional.

Not really. By reading last night's game, it was the wrong decision IMO. Phil Clarke summarised it quite well.

None of the team's defences were capable of stopping the other team, so there was always gonna be more tries, this was not gonna end up as an arm wrestle. They had just gone down to 12, and we should be ruthless and go for the kill. We let them off the hook, just as we did when we were 16-6 up and should have gone for the kill.

There are very few (probably none) coaches who would use your tactic of going for goal every time. Those days have gone now the game sees so many tries.

I thought it psychologically and territorially handed the game over to Catalans.

To be honest, it doesn't matter where Briers puts himself in our defensive line, he's of absolutely no use what so ever...

We always say Moran has alot of influence buying players, msn-ing Mr Johns, finding us quality pre match entertainment etc but to riff on what has been said.

Maybe the whole club is complacent as is is actually not present alot but his money is if needed. Long as you keep saying the rights, can give the impression that the ship isnt sinking. That is until you notice the rats have gone.


But we got a A grade license....

did anyone see the highlights of the game when we it was 18 all and the catalans player got sin binned by the ref , and the ref was a disgrace tbh, when james lowes signaled 4 the 2 points he was relaxed on a chair in the box doin nothin in my opinion it looked like he could not be bothered watchin the game and makin decisions

Lowes body language is not at all positive, at best he looks totally bored - in fact he has never inspired me at all.

I would like to see him showing a bit of enthusiasm when things go well and anger when his plans / tactics (??!!) are not followed by the players.

And his media sound bites are becoming rather annoying - honesty is all well and good, but being honest about your own personal failings week after week is a bad career move.

Finally - this is not a 2 game slump - this is the continuation of last seasons 6 /7 match capitulation - we are on a major slide, needs sorting.

Anyone got Tony Smith's mobile number ??

Hopefully Simon Moran.

Now here's another point about the coaching staff. How come we can only do a reverse kick under the sticks for a chaser when Bridge is on the pitch. Is Riley not quick enough, Anderson or many others, yet we only seem to play for that when Bridge is there.

How come we very rarely use the bomb?

How come we very rarely use a high kick to King?

Again, and I'm sick of repeating myself, why does Hicks have to take the kick offs when he's goal kicking? Last Sat, on at least 2 kick offs in the 2nd half, there was almost 20 metres of empty touchline for a short hard kick, yet Hicks puts a dolly up 15 metres out.

I seen the highlights of Manly against Quins t'other day, and this is something I've noticed with the other Aussie halves (Cronk, Thurston etc.), their kicking to the corners is fantastic, the variation they have is fantastic, sometimes it's a low hanging kick which can be plucked out of the air at speed (like Robertson's 1st try), and sometimes it's a hanging bomb (like what King would often win for the Storm). I never see us doing this on either side, our short kicking game lacks so much imagination it's untrue, is it the coach? The players or both?

We should have twisted the knife & gone for 6. Having said that, we got the 2, got the ball back & were unlucky with a Briers 40/20. If that would have gone our way, then as you say, he would be a hero on here.