we will have to agree to disagree there rugby chick.

as for teams like wakefield, they get poor attendances because their ground is terrible with no adequate facilities. poor attendances create rubbish atmospheres which tends to produce poor games.

therefore i think decent stadiums are a must for a SL team.

come the end of the season im sure all the usual suspects will be down at the bottom. for mine i would prefer them to be clubs who have good grounds ie, clubs that are looking to progress.

im sure Leigh could become a force if they were given three years in SL with all the finance that comes with it.

What would Leigh bring to Super League, bugger all. Widnes would bring a bit more but at the end of the day they are not a long term franchise that is going to grow, its a small town with little future, both of those teams would always be struggling to retain their franchise as they would be struggling to grow.

Salford at least is in a growing area with the Quays and media city and there's the prospects of some serious investment, sponsorship and a big population, which has more of a case for a long term Super League franchise than the other clubs.

If we are looking at cutting vulnerable franchises then thats one thing but lets not argue to replace them with others that would struggle - I would rather we trimmed down to 10 teams and upped the quality, than diluted with small town clubs for which the only argument is nostalgia and tradition.

Ok I'll have you a wager of £50 that the "usual suspects" won't be there again.

I bet that the no more than one of last year's bottom three will be in the bottom three this year. Are you big enough to take the bet?

Exactly, the likes of Toulouse should get a license ahead of them. Don't remember them getting huge crowds last time they were in Super League.

What's the population of Leigh, about 50,000 if that.

Care to qualify that comment?

Definately, I completely disagree with everything you have said.

For you to state that poor grounds produce poor attendances and therefore produce poor rugby is a bit ridiculous. Try telling Saints that. The amount of supporters inside the ground have no real bearing on the fare produced on the pitch. Yes a larger attendance makes for a better atmosphere but I've seen some awesome games of rugby with hardly any supporters. You only have to watch the National Championship for that.

You can't seriously say that clubs with poor grounds are not looking to progress. Any club wants a shiny new stadium but it's not always the desire that makes the deal. It's down to funding, the council, planning permission, a suitable site, all kinds.

I completely disagree about Leigh being more of a force with 3 years security than Celtic. What exactly have you seen of Leigh that makes you think that, aside from their stadium? How is it healthy for RL to keep SL in the NW and Yorkshire? What good is that going to do our sport?

Rugbychick

If the RFL are really looking to expand to scotland and ireland its gonna be a recipe for disaster.

The poor crowd at this weekends magic shin dig will tell you all you need to know.

RL used to be a relatively affordable spectator sport, i remember when it used to be £6 to stand on the terraces! You only had to travel a few miles to get to saints, wigan, widnes. The furthest you had to go was north yorkshire or east yorkshire.

However, it is now becoming more and more expensive to follow your team, people cant afford to travel all the way to Scotland, wales, ireland and london. Attendances will dwindle and also the amount of fans that come from these new areas will be minimal ie, celtic at hj earlier this year was pathetic. Again i hark back to poor atmospheres due to poorly attended games.

One of the main attractions, for me, of RL is capacity crowds watching rip roaring games. Ask the players, im sure they will tell you that a great atmosphere gives them that added edge to perform. It stands to reason.

This season especially i have witnessed first hand too many games lacking in atmosphere and passion both on and off the pitch. Its like this great sport is dying. Its really really sad.

It was anounced a while ago that it wouldn't be finshed till 2011 !

i really feel Salford might attract more people by Changing their name to Manchester (someone else suggested it too) im sure their fans wouldn't find that too much of an upheaval.

Celtic change to either Bridgend or move down the road to Cardiff

The word Celtic doesn't seem to associate Welshness

and get a cumbrian team in

Quote ="Tony Catsmith"chief, you're homework for this weekend, go start that thread on the salford board and see what happens.'" Do you know what i might just do that, would be interesting. viewtopic.php?t=408198

Quote ="Tony Catsmith"chief, you're homework for this weekend, go start that thread on the salford board and see what happens.'" Do you know what i might just do that, would be interesting. viewtopic.php?t=408198

Quote ="Wire_Yed_79"Do you know what i might just do that, would be interesting. viewtopic.php?t=408198'" Didn't last long, did it?

Quote ="Wire_Yed_79"Do you know what i might just do that, would be interesting. viewtopic.php?t=408198'" Didn't last long, did it?

The population of Widnes is about 53,000 as against Salford's about 216000. That doesn't always directly translate into crowds, Widnes in their last season in SL averaged about 6800 which isn't bad, Salford are averaging about 5000 this season. I think if you put Widnes in SL now they wouldn't look out of place.

The bigger problem is that it's difficult to see Widnes growing as a SL franchise, generating more revenue and attracting sponsorship. Widnes is an industrial town dependent on the chemical industry but there isn't the prospect of investment and potential sponsors coming into the town, which there is for Salford, there's a university there, they have had a lot of investment into the Quays area and are setting up a media city, its visually impressive and a good area for city living, it will attract young professionals and businesses who want to live by the Quays area.

If you had to take a gamble on which one of the two clubs has better prospects for the future it would be Salford - I can't see how Widnes would get to a stronger position than they were last time they were in SL.

I've suggested it a couple of times now.

It may take away the heritage of Salford RL and cause upset to those Salfordonians who don't realise they actually live in Greater Manchester, but Manchester is a much more marketable name than Salford.

Manchester Salford Reds might even work as a name

The Welsh are a Celtic race, so there is the association there, plus the old Union side in Bridgend were called the Celtic Warriors.

As for Salford, leave them as they are. I don't think there is any great rivalry between the two cities, and if people from Manchester want to support an RL team they've got the Reds, just as most Salfordians support a team called Manchester United. Changing over 100 years of history just to put the name Manchester on doesn't seem right to me.

I've lived in Manchester for 7 years. Changing the name to Manchester will have zero effect on the locals. The only way Salford will improve their crowds is:-

- a better team
- a better stadium
- community initiatives

They're doing there best at all 3. The stadium is the key because it drives the other 2. However that is looking less and less likely. Every set back is treated, at least publicly, by the club as 'small set back, we'll be OK, any day now'. I understand why they have to do this but it is starting to looking faintly ridiculous. I know the recession is an issue but its hardly been plain sailing up to this point. From what I can gather they're going to have to resubmit a revised application anyway. It's likely the stadium will be at the same stage when the next licence applications come round as they were when the last ones went. That will not bode well for them.

What about the Salfordians who realise they live in entirely different city to Manchester?

For those people, it could be named Greater Manchester Salford Reds

Seems a bit long that though. May as well just drop the Greater and Salford from it

Another way would be to refuse Salford a licence and set up a franchise in Manchester.

Why would you want to do this? Plus, if they were going to do this they'd already have a Manchester team set up in NL1, so that they can join the Super League in 3 years time, a la Toulouse.

Fine then, picky git



Drop Salford and give it to Widnes

Now thats a good idea.

So they can beat you every Good Friday instead of us?

it is called black friday in Warrington thanks to your men

And finish above them year after year