Find it sad that posters on here are arguing amongst themselves like those on the Redvee.
Look, we get out first 17, then we go again and no one will touch us.

I’m as disappointed as anyone, but if we can’t beat Wigan with the team we put out, we sure as hell ain’t going to beat the champions with it.

There are individuals that impressed over the last 7 days and those that didn’t. I’ve was happy with the work of Williams and Russell, I’ve disappointed with the effort of Ratchford and Drinkwater.

Well guess we just needed to remind ourselves of last season so we don’t get complacent for the rest of the season

But in all honesty we getting killed at the ruck, they laying on from the get go was awful, at one time that grub Scarsbrook could of strangled one of our players he had him by the neck that long on the floor. I thought the directive was to speed up the game but clearly not when we are playing.

Defensively Dufty is very poor, under the high ball he is worse.

He looks a shadow of his former self.

Why not?

I wasn't expecting that at all. I think whilst we were far more impacted by the absentees, both coaches had similar problems. No props, (no backrow for us too) and the normal gameplan unavailable. Powell seemed to replace Vaughan and Dudson's work with Ashton and Russell and try to play the same way. You were getting bullied when you took the ball in tonight in general and the slow play the balls on the first and second tackles stopped any momentum. Williams then tried to go laterally far too early and without any momentum forward. Contrast to Saints and the likes of Lees and LMS were used properly. They ran it in hard and got a decent play the ball. Lomax, Dodd, Welsby and Bell were then having fun pivoting the ball around off a retreating defensive line. We were making 15-20m a carry without even beating a man. I think we only used 15 players tonight too and had two of the oldest players in the competition playing huge minutes.

Sure you effectively had 3 props missing (You wouldn't have played 5 more even if they were all available), but the worrying thing for you is that if teams stop the quick play the ball, there is nothing else there and it goes straight to panic stations. Stop the quick play the ball and it's just a case of keeping an eye on Williams. Your back rowers were poor as well. Nicholson was bullied physically and looks like he needs taking out of the firing line for a week or two, which all young players need from time to time. Currie the other end of the career scale and both him and Clark looked way off. Maguie very poor too, but he needs gametime to get his sharpness back I guess. Team selection odd I thought too. Thewlis and Mata'utia on the bench and Minikin and Russell starting? Clark at loose not Ratchford? That way you could have had Walker coming off the bench with Kasiano. Why don't you play your academy forwards? Were Thomas and Holroyd injured too? Why put Green on the bench if you don't trust him to play?

Masterclass from Lomax tonight I thought too. The best player in the competition still.

McGuire… my Nan could have had more impact.

She’s been dead 30’years.

Needs to up his game massively or bugger off back to Oz.

Very disappointing last night.
Saints clearly derseved to win.
Not too many Wire players were on their game - Ashton, Walker and Matautia were 3 notable exceptions.
As Saddened says - Saints slowed the ruck speed down like Wigan and we didn't really get on the front foot.
I think Clark came into the game at less than 100% and Harrison seemed a bit short of match fitness.

Lomax was very very good.

Dufty had a bit of a mare and the high kicks under pressure found him out more than once. The 3rd try off a great kick should have been dealt with. The Saints player ran harder with more desire.

I think we played better last week, certainly defensively - even though in my opinion DP got his team selection wrong.

I think this week the tactics weren't right - or at least weren't executed at the right level.

These 2 games have been a reality check.
All 3 teams are down on numbers, but we should really gave done better lsst night.

Last week we got bullied and Wigan played the conditions better (Smiths' kicking was sublime). This week we struggled with the slow ptb, tactics might have been off and execution certainly was.

As an aside - we could end up with 2 more suspensions based on precedence.
Kasianos flop on Lomax that wasn't called, and the drop hit tackle on Welsby on around 59min (if memory serves me correctly) by the 3rd man - didn't actually see who it was. Again that wasn't called - and in my view was worse that Vaughans.

People are allowed to be peed off having just watch us lose two games we were never really in against our two biggest rivals and two biggest challengers.

We were outfought, outclassed and out enthused in both. For all the talk about how many we were missing, Saints and Wigan were both missing lots of players too but they both wanted it more than we did. If you don't find that slightly concerning then - I'm sorry - we want different things for our club.

I think what needs to happen is for DP to blood as many young forwards as possible in the upcoming games to cover for our big men who are potential liabilities every time come on the pitch. Perhaps another good idea would be to educate the team in the errors of giving away cheap ball ,penalties &panic passes going to ground or in touch. Btw why was Kasiano penalised near Saints line ?

I think it’s important to keep things in perspective. Saints and Wigan are first class teams, even when down on numbers. While there are signs of weakness, there are also some bright sparks.

Previously, I criticised Powell stating that I couldn’t identify one player that was better now than when he joined, but I think Walker has displaced Clark as first choice, and has developed massively. There’s a positive there to latch on to, but we need to see more. Players like Ashton really need to kick on now from being decent prospects to actually being elite players.

There is also a positive that, despite it being labelled as the Dads Army pack, those missing aren’t generally “aging” injuries. Dudson with a broken hand and a stupid suspension, McGuire with a stupid suspension, Kasiano has played big minutes and has been effective, Vaughan has been great and will be back better for a week off. Take away the suspensions and we’d still be on Plan A, which is undoubtedly effective. The Hurrell try for example doesn’t happen if we’re on the front foot, in fact when we are on the front foot you see Currie get through hole there and he’s no longer on the RLFans scrap heap.

The issues are there for all to see, without big men to force momentum, we can’t create it ourselves. I see why Powell is looking at Russell to try and counter that, but I just can’t fathom not picking Thewlis at all. He’s got it all that kid. We got lucky with the Lees one, but again saints just kick behind Russell and see what happens. Worked in the Hopate try.

It’s good that this time has come now, now 8 weeks ago or in the play offs. The challenge is for the team to find a way to create momentum and space when we’re not bullying smaller packs. Week off this week, Wakefield the one after starting another run of very winnable games.

Come the end of June when we have Leeds, Wigan and Saints in succession, you’d like to think there will be significant improvement and we can demonstrate that we can keep up with the challengers.

I agree with this. If those games turn out like the past two weeks, then I will be very disappointed.

A very silly double movement of about 2 foot.

I wake up this morning disappointed as we have lost against the teams we are trying to overcome to win SL.

However

1. We have won 80% of our games.
2. We are probably the 3rd or 4th best side in the competition in reality currently.
3. We have good league position and barring any collapse will make the playoffs.
4. Powell will have seen our attacking weaknesses when the ruck is slow earlier, sooner rather than later. Opportunity to address.
5. We have good players to return.
6. The decision on Clark and Currie extension is now an easy one.
7. We have cap space to make additional signings this year.
8. October is 5+ months away.

Lomax ran the show. Masterclass!

I'm sorry, when did we become genuine challengers?

I know the good start to the season as got many fans suddenly thinking we are world-beaters, but didn't we all agree pre-season that top 4 and a half decent showing in the play-offs would be a good season?

Fact is, we have had a good start results-wise (performances have actually been workmanlike & patchy rather than looking like some invincible side) and then with 2 rather weakened lineups we have lost to the 2 teams likely to be the GF finalists in October.

Call me easily pleased but I'll take what I've seen so far. Even in defeat, it was a big improvement on last season and I'll be more concerned if results go wrong after the break and we have what looks an easier run of fixtures.

Very true. It's unrealistic to expect to go from 11th to GF winners in one season. But top 4 and one or two playoff wins would be my balanced expectation. Obviously if we do more than that then great.

It was clear for both games, especially Wigan, we were miles off where we want to be with defensive line speed.
We ought to have beaten Wigan with fitness alone.

You can’t rely on holding back and trusting the defensive line when playing without big men.
Salford had to run around them to score, but when you are without props, teams can run right up the middle and have gained 10 yards already, plus an offload or the occasional line break, and your done!

If you can’t trust the defence, then you have to jump out and get on top of them early…they go a set of six and are lucky to make 20 yards before having to make a deep kick.

Gets off soapbox.

Someone is going to have to educate me here I don’t claim to have all the knowledge of the rules are if there actually any. Anyway I thought I read somewhere that it was about speeding the game up (which we evidently rely on)

So my concern before the Catalan game I knew teams would have to slow us down. Catalan had mastered that in one of their previous games and then Wigan done it to us and from the get go Saints done it to us. Now fair play they got away with it some of the laying on last night was embarrassing at one point I thought LMS was having a love in with one of our players he held on to him that long, btw I didn’t notice our players fight so hard to get up. So is there a rule regarding ruck speed I even saw mentioned in Powells post match interview he spoke of the ruck being 8 seconds.

I agree that we needed to fight a lot harder to force the ref into a decision. The first set of the match took a full minute to complete, with Saints lying on in every tackle.

It's always struck me as simply being at the referee's discretion, which is probably why, as fans, we moan a lot about inconsistencies in how it's applied.

If you recall our game with Salford a few weeks ago, I remember the ref suddenly getting on their case for slowing the play the ball at the beginning of the second half, after basically ignoring it for the first 40 minutes.

Overall, I think it's a problem that won't ever have a defining solution - Similar to the 10 yard defensive line, which is sporadically enforced by referees, it appears to simply be down to what mood the ref is in on any given day.

Well thanks for that. It makes sense what you are saying because one week it’s fine then another week fans of any team are complaining about slow play the ball, if it is at all what you that it’s a referee’s discretion then sorry it’s unprofessional. It’s either allowed or you take it out the game. Like I have already said my view is/was the RFL are looking to speed up the game making it a more attractive watch.

Our game always seems to hinge on the speed we play the ball, if teams can stop that then we are doomed as we seem to have no other game plan. The only player we have that fights to keep his front is Vaughan. Within in minutes the game plan of Saints was clear slow the ruck, that and just generally up for it more we were or was it just confusion because we had no other plan. Worse game from Williams I have seen also.

With the start we made, the squad we have, the abundance of forwards signed and the improvement of the pack, the fact that Saints have just lost one of their greatest coaches in the SL era and have had an indifferent start coupled with the fact that Wigan look like they are a Bevan French injury away from being a pretty average team, we should be aiming to be challengers.

Similar to Arsenal this season where no body expected them to be challengers but with the likes of Liverpool and City (to their standards) dropping off they find themselves in a unbelievable position where, never in their wildest dreams before the season started, did they expect to be top of the league with six games left after tonight. That should be the model this season, shoot for the stars and all that.

Also, don't give me the nonsense about finishing 11th last season. That team should never have finished 11th with the personnel we had and players performances were an absolute joke. I'd like to remind you that Leeds were 11th when Rohan Smith took over last season and went on to reach a Grand Final.