I’ve never said this, ever. But, I think we could win it this year. I’m likely wrong, I’m likely going to be a laughing stock for this post, but… when we need it, when we really need it, there’s a steel and a determination about this team. And that might not be Sam, it might be the players themselves, but I genuinely think that if we can sneak in the 6, we could just find a way. 


What I can say of Sam, evidentially, is this the has got players 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 15, 17, 18… the same as his predecessor, and one team was an abject failure and one is disappointingly underperforming. There is a difference in there. 

I keep seeing this bouncing about on here and facebook that we chose Musgrove over Ese'ese.We didn't at all, we were in for Ese'ese as were a few other clubs, but he chose to sign for Hull.
We signed Musgrove 2-3 months AFTER Ese'ese signed with Hull.

That's a good shout - in an international series he could come in with the status and aura to work with the best players in the game and help elevate the culture to be one of winning. Like the Aussies do with State of Origin - its working with the best players in the game for short periods so they bring in guys like Daley, Fittler, Meninga, Slater who have that standing in the game. 


Building a winning team in a club competition is hard and requires a winning set up that goes beyond the coach, and also probably requires a coach to have gained experience and made mistakes before they are thrust into the spotlight. Sometimes its through a lengthy apprenticeship at a winning team like Wigan did with Wane and Peet, or like Leeds did with guys like Tony Smith and Brian McDermott who were battle scarred from tough spells at Hudds and London. In both cases those guys took over with more experience and inherited a club with a set up that helped them succeed - great young players, great recruitment. 


Burgess got dropped into a much harder situation with us - a club with high profile and expectations but where there were a lot of problems, a squad that had recently been overhauled but to be honest needed another rebuild, but now he had to deal with all the contracts brought in under the old regime. And this was his first time as head coach. 


The curse of a great player is they get their coaching opportunities too early because of their name and reputation then things go wrong early on and they spend the rest of their career trying to get over that stain on their CV. Guys who were lesser names as a player have to build themselves up before they get their big opportunity but they are much better prepared to take it on when they get it. 

I admire your belief. If there is a steel it is highly selective. It didnt show itself in the CC final, Vegas or Wakefield x 2, or Hull FC at home.

Unfortunately this club needs a cleaning out with a new broom, but we keep using the old, battered one and hope for a different result. 

Perhaps Powell was the answer but we had to tough it out through a few poor seasons to get the desired effect, and nobody had the patience or the nuts to commit to that? Speaks volumes in hindsight that he didn't have these issues at Cas or apparently at Wakey, either. 


We seem to be rather toxic, and all I can imagine is that we need an absolute root and branch clean out, not just the players. Something is endemic here. We can't keep saying we're a big club if we keep doing the same old rubbish. Everytime we apparently move forward we eventually stall and begin rolling backwards. 



What was it Einstein said the definition of insanity was?

Yes, there's only one club where Powell won't have been viewed as a successful coach which does beg the question doesn't it ....

Leeds - debuts given to many of their 'golden generation'.


Featherstone - multiple Championship league leaders shields and grand finals. Denied promotion to Super League by 'licensing' in 2011.


Castleford - SL league leaders shield by a record margin (2017) & grand finalists.


Wakefield - Promoted to SL at the first attempt (2024) and currently top six after 12 games.


His win % at Warrington (42%) is significantly worse than at any other club he's coached at.

But what can it be that's so toxic and pervasive?  Just ingrained culture from the board and senior management?  It seems to span coaches, back room staff and managers. 

I have often said until we remove everyone since the days of Cullen and the culture from that era we will never change, the constant jobs for the boys will never fully remove it.

I agree. It feels like our set up is one of comfort zone where personal loyalties to some long serving individuals come ahead of searching hard and wide to find the best candidate. 


It says a lot that Daryl Powell has been successful everywhere but here and I was always a Powell fan but he bears some responsibility as he brought in some guys from Cas to help stamp his approach on the squad who were past their best and didn't perform. That won't have done him any favours when he tried to get tough with the existing squad as they will have been thinking well he brought in his mates from Cas who have been crap so why lecture us? 


Since Fitzpatrick has been here we have always deluded ourselves that we are in better shape than we really are. In the early years Fitzpatrick used to talk tough every year about how high the standards were "we reached two finals last year but that isn't good enough, now it's time to win Super League" but we've slipped backwards and he's still here! He's never thought about holding himself accountable and falling on his sword for failing to win the big one...


We don't have access to the top NRL talent that we used to bring in during the Cullen and TS eras, but Super League these days is a lower standard which means its more accessible for teams to make big strides with some good years of recruitment and a good team culture. Look at how Leigh and Hull KR have risen and Salford had their moment a few years back getting to the Grand Final, Catalans have had their moments too. It's no longer the closed shop of Leeds, Wigan and Saints.


The chance to rise to the top is there for the taking but I don't think we are going to do it while Fitzpatrick and co are here. We'll just plod along as nearly men until we have a change. The best we can hope for is a good Cup run and maybe a Cup win every now and then to tide us over. 

Bit of a disasterw#nk on here.


But yes I'm sure if we fire Ben Currie, Joe Philbin and Bobby Moore the kitman, we'll be unstoppable.

The one thing we have in our favour is a good structure beneath the first team level, which is bearing fruit.   I do wonder if Steve McNamara could do anything with us/   Not so much 'the missing piece of the puzzle', but possibly the best available option with a proven record of finals.


BTW, where the hell have you been Sally?   You're like that Mothman Prophecy movie, where you only appear when a disaster unfolds...   Coincidence?