A theme of last year on here was how we had a beaten pack, needed some biff etc.

What do you think about it at this point?

For me, the pack is the main reason I have got limited expectations about this season, particularly the thin-looking front row.

From last year's struggling pack we have moved on Sims, Savelio, Julien, Westerman and Dwyer.

Adding BMM plus Currie coming back from injury gives us a stronger looking back row.

What's the front row going to be? Hill and Cooper with Crosby and Akauola coming off the bench? A few question marks there.

Overall I think we are 2 top class forwards away from being able to go in to the season with confidence that we can be competing in the top four.

Can’t argue with that. Weaker than we need but other teams don’t look THAT much stronger uk front thankfully. I crave for the pack from 2010-2013 though

Our squad is 3-4 players short
Of what we need to get into the
Top four two props for starters
Back row ok
With a few injuries which we will get
We are into young guys with little experience
And with question marks over
Toby king injuries and whether Crosby will play
Much of a part and the fact
Cooper has not improved
Only hope is smith stopped them from
Playing to their potential and they were
Not playing for him at all
Time will soon tell
First six games we will know
3 wins at best don't hope to high !

The problem our pack had last year, was that Smith brought in a dietician from football. He had them all eating small meals on a more frequent basis. The result of this was that all our forwards dropped weight like slimmers of the year. I know that two of our props lost over 10lb in weight each. This is no good in rugby and lead to us being bossed around on the majority of occasions. Thankfully the dietician has left and the players who remain are (so I'm told) are putting weight back on.

King and Philbin need to kick on this year, they have both had decent games, but never looked like keeping Westwood out of the team, which should be easy if were honest.

An unknown in Sita could work out, and BMM could play at loose who will add size and strength. Still at least one quality prop short, and a good reserve hooker missing from a good pack.

Ruddy EK.
Let's see after Leeds.

Still short in the pack for this season. An injury to Hill and we are stuffed.

Hill - hopefully back to his best.
Cooper - yet to show the form he did in Aus.
Crosby - Assuming he plays and plays as he did at Wigan 2 seasons ago he will be steady.
Akauola - Unknown.


King - Not a top 4 quality prop.
Philbin - Ditto.

King and Philbin up against forwards such as Amor, Walmsley, Taylor, Cuthbertson, Garbutt is like a no contest.

Amor was average at best last season ask most Saints fans!

I think Philbin has shown some good potential and with an enthusiastic coach at the helm, could really kick on and be an asset. I'm not too sure about King though. He's too much of a 'steady eddie for me.

Ideally I would of liked us to take a gamble on a big South sea islander to take us up to full cap. That said, I'm really excited to see Akuola play and have a feeling he could do really well for us.

On today's showing I think we've got problems. Salford pack bullied us for much of the game.Pat Moran and Luis Johnson are still young and lightweight. Big Ben was ok in spells but needs to up his work rate and Mike Cooper whilst enthusiastic doesn't seem to have the bulk or mongrel of a top class forward.

There is a line between enough size and fitness. It looks like we've found somewhere near that threshold.
Not quite physical enough to match it with Salford most of the 1St but smothered them out midway into the 2nd.
Fitness over size had it...
I would like to see a bit more grunt and I think that'll come from Sit Ak.
Salford were their own enemy but the structured defence may have helped too...it certainly did in the 2nd half with a nil.

I think there may be some games where we have to sit tight and have the nerve to leave it late.

Cooper may benefit from an intensive course on how catch the ball from a kick off and retain it in the tackle.

Cooper forced a crucial error in defence though, in his defence.

For me, that line describes the difference between Wigan’s grand final success at the expense of Warrington.

Any pack containing Jack Hughes......You've answered your own question