Shaun Wane was never the solution on his own. That's why he called the Warrington job 'a poisoned chalice'... He isn't the reason behind the Wigan culture, he's a symptom of it and also an important cog in it. There are a plethora of reasons that make up the winning culture at Wigan (including the stream of local talent) and if we want to emulate that here it has to start from the top down. Hopefully we are starting to see that high salaries, big paydays for past-it players and catty social media is not a recipe for success on the field.

The appointment of Burgess will no doubt help on the field, and the current crop of local young talent will hopefully be the shoots of a new ethos within the club. It's important that we maintain that mindset going forward of having players that will put their body on the line for the club when the chips are down, rather than a coffee-shop culture where everything is peachy and the players just plod on regardless, thinking about their next latte on Monday morning at training.

The danger is when Burgess leaves and a new coach comes in, and we trust them with yet another big culture change.

I think that's where the appointment of chambers comes into its own, it will be his responsibility to ensure the work we are doing now at all levels are the same throughout so the previous three years of work is still relevant at first team level, the appointment of a new head coach will be based on how we work and operate as a club not on their individual achievements previously. As mentioned above Wigan are the benchmark without doubt but they appointed a relative unknown head coach in Peet and he's worked wonders within keeping that club winning mentality because all the coaching staff at all levels work to the same standards and that most probably comes from Radlinski ensuring the right people are in the right place

Decent post and good points although I'm not sure that any blame can be laid at coffee.

I'm hoping that when Burgess eventually does leave, we won't be heading for a "big culture change". You see it in now Association Football and at the successful RL clubs, the system is set as you say yourself "from the top down" and the coach comes in playing with the cards that are being dealt to him largely by the club's hierarchy.

Rollercoaster management is bad for business, it's usually expensive and doesn't guarantee success, well certainly not the long term legacy sustainable type, which is what we need to aim for as it's vital in a financially constrained sport such as ours.

The standards are set at the top and run through everything they do. People like the following:

1. Radlinski (GB, England international)
2. Wane (multiple GF winner as coach)
3. O'Loughlin (GB, England international, multiple GF winner)

ensure that continuity. If Peet leaves - they remain.

When Burgess leaves we will have

1. Fitzpatrick
2. Chambers
3. Gleeson (GB, England international, multiple GF winner)
4. Marshall

Exactly, the standards are set and remain within the club. Rather than the standards are set at the top and run through everything they do i think at a club like Wigan the standards are set at the under 16s and run through to the first team, every single one of them first team players know there are ten lads with the desire to take that first team spot away from them so the standards are set from the bottom up

1. Radlinski (GB, England international)
2. Wane (multiple GF winner as coach)
3. O'Loughlin (GB, England international, multiple GF winner)

The hierarchy at Wigan are all ex-Wigan. They haven't suddenly gone shopping for "outsiders". They have trusted their own. When Peet was given the coaching job most from outside of Wigan said who?
I'm afraid there are no easy answers for doing similar at Wire.

"Exactly, the standards are set and remain within the club. Rather than the standards are set at the top and run through everything they do i think at a club like Wigan the standards are set at the under 16s and run through to the first team, every single one of them first team players know there are ten lads with the desire to take that first team spot away from them so the standards are set from the bottom up"

I find this is closer to the nub of bridging the gap. When junior teams from Wire area play those from Wigan are we still finding there is a gap. I would love to spend time in the schools & in local rugby to try to put my finger on what needs to be done. Whenever we get a decent team at Warrington (say at U16 level) we play Wigan ... and find it tough. Wire won't buy our way (long term) out of this problem.

They also have that winning culture of breaching the salary cap 3 times and buying their way out of relegation. Scum.

Wigan love-in needed redressing - making me bilious.

Regardless of what club does what the culture that grew at our club in the past needs to be 100% eradicated. It did start to Change when Smith came in but then stalled, I’m not sure why but my theory was what was already embedded within the club we never completely removed it. Jobs for the boys etc and back room staff or staff in the office we still had links with the past.

Now this is only me theorising but that’s how I see it. With the appointment of Chambers as DoR and some of the changes he has helped to make we can be the club some hope for, it’s just going to take time. Where it will be hard to compete with Wigan is they have a bigger catchment when it comes to schools rugby and are a lot longer established at bringing them through.

Chambers is over at Vegas now sorcing training facilities for the team.
Glad we are taking it very seriously.

Wigan fan in peace, I like reading this board as there are some really balanced and sensible views and some really good discussions.

Not sure about the bit in bold you have said, I don't think it is because there is a bigger catchment when it comes to the schools as such, Wigan often venture out much further afield than just local schools and that is something that all clubs could do.

One thing that Wigan do do really well is the pathway to being a Wigan player, they have the futures programme (age 14) which takes players from amateur clubs and puts them all together for an intense programme to see what the players are like, often these are assisted by coaches of the local clubs, under the guidance of Wigan coaching staff, further local club coaches can attend sessions with the Wigan coaching staff to see how the club train and build a winning culture.

So the pathway that is built at Wigan often starts at the local clubs and the kids coming through have already been coached in the 'Wigan way' before they are even signed on at the club, I don't know the pathways at Warrington but to build that culture of young kids wanting to put their bodies on the line for the club, it has to start at an early age and the club cascading that down to the local clubs and schools is a key part of that.