Effort should always be there as an absolute minimum. I won't commend them on effort.

Williams is no doubt talented, but for me has massively under performed for us so far. So what do you think he needs in the team to be the superstar he could be?

Agree. At Wigan it was effective. Tomkins mastered the art, and everyone followed suit. Charnley looked like the odd one out with us, and ultimately gathered groans from the stands rather then the oral foaming that you get from Wigan, Saints and the former Leeds south stand (lost its intimidation, through being rubbish and making a fancy new stadium). The pressure on the ref is so intense, everyone is adamant that it’s a penalty, and demand it. And if they don’t get it, the next 50/50 just creates a louder noise, more demand, more pressure.

Catalan got it wrong for years, using that noise to feel aggrieved to segue into unbridled aggression. Whereas the good teams keep that pressure up. The opposition know that one mistake and the whistle goes, they’re under the microscope. The whole thing builds the tension.

I see it differently. Saints bombed about 3 clear tries. They didn’t get out of first gear and we’re still never in any danger despite Warrington giving everything.

I think you were watching a different game to most of us.

So finally watch it back. I tend not to watch back on TV the games we lose that I've seen in person as the result won't change and usually I'll only see things that will wind me up. However games we win I can watch over again.

My take from yesterday Saints should have gone in at half time out of site but they didn't through a combination of poor execution and a very effective scramble defence. Matty Ashton was immense and I bet Dufty never had as many tackles in a game though must of the time they ran at him.

The first Saints try was forward I don't think Bell threw a pass backwards all game.

2nd half was better and the key turning point I felt was the Mata'utia knock on, that wasn't. I was a definite high shot from Roby his second soon after he had already been given a talking to, for me he should have gone to the bin but he was never going to, given the story that was being told.

Other than that thought Thailer actually had an OK game 50/50 call seemed to go both ways and the sin bins were both sin bins. I thought Walmsleys looked worse but either he is the greatest actor in the world as he looked genuinely bemused but the replays looked like he took the shot with his shoulder.

Few other things live vs TV, live the weather was awful really awful and I think suited Saints as with heavy ground and wet ball we weren't able to go to the edges or hit at pace the Matty Ashton juggle and the Philbin drops were what might have been moments.

Also I really couldn't stand Amors commentary it was like listening to Wire games on radio Merseyside, it ruined a decent C4 broadcast, he wasn't in the same bias league as Wilkin or Clarke but it just got my back up.

Whatever the channel i have them muted if Wilkin or Amor are in the box.