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| Hiya
I'm currently writing a brief sociological history of RL (largely helped by Tony Collins: 'RL in 20th Century Britain,' if you're interested). Anyway, I'm researching the financial side of the contemporary game (introduction of the salary cap, Murdoch's millions, expansion and business model type stuff; and how players have sought to capitalise on the remuneration culture of the game).
Can any of you direct me to any academic resources on the above??? I promise to let you read my dissertation (the topic of which I cannot divulge at this stage although I fully intend on writing a first class academic piece) if you help me out.
No worries if you don't know of anything.
Have a good one!
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| Sending a PM.
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| Just replied.
Just found out something of broader topical interest.
Following the Hillsborough disaster, the Taylor report addressed 'endemic hooliganism, and overcrowding on terraces' in rundown stadia throughout sport. Evidence suggesting the above was a problem in RL too, was based on just a single visit to a rugby league event. A 1989/1990 Salford match!!!
It was this report and its financial implications that contributed to some clubs, such as Swinton, being forced into selling their rundown grounds. Thus, alleged behaviour of Salford fans apparently contributed to the demise of Swinton. Of course, this suggestion is hardly truthful, as many more factors, that are perhaps a tad less biased than the Taylor report, will have impacted on clubs like Swinton.
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There was an article in New Society in the early 80s that followed Leeds United's Service Crew (they had also been featured on ITV at a similar time - News at Ten or World In Action, something like that). The RL crowd at Headingley was shown as an example of a more sedate family atmosphere - a world away from football. That said, there's stuff in this book, although a pretty poor source, I've heard to be true: www.amazon.co.uk/The-Family-Game ... 1903158621. You only have to ask a couple of the lads who've been following Salford for a while and you'll get a few stories!
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There was an article in New Society in the early 80s that followed Leeds United's Service Crew (they had also been featured on ITV at a similar time - News at Ten or World In Action, something like that). The RL crowd at Headingley was shown as an example of a more sedate family atmosphere - a world away from football. That said, there's stuff in this book, although a pretty poor source, I've heard to be true: www.amazon.co.uk/The-Family-Game ... 1903158621. You only have to ask a couple of the lads who've been following Salford for a while and you'll get a few stories!
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| I'd start with Framing the Future from 1994 - good luck finding a copy!
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| Quote: mmp "I'd start with Framing the Future from 1994 - good luck finding a copy!'"
I have a copy (somewhere).
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| Quote: Red Preacher "Just replied.
Just found out something of broader topical interest.
Following the Hillsborough disaster, the Taylor report addressed 'endemic hooliganism, and overcrowding on terraces' in rundown stadia throughout sport. Evidence suggesting the above was a problem in RL too, was based on just a single visit to a rugby league event. A 1989/1990 Salford match!!!
It was this report and its financial implications that contributed to some clubs, such as Swinton, being forced into selling their rundown grounds. Thus, alleged behaviour of Salford fans apparently contributed to the demise of Swinton. Of course, this suggestion is hardly truthful, as many more factors, that are perhaps a tad less biased than the Taylor report, will have impacted on clubs like Swinton.'"
New ground safety legislation was already in place before Hillsborough. This was following the Bradford City fire disaster in 1985 and the Popperwell enquiry. If I remember correctly I think Swinton were forced to demolish the wooden seating stand at the back of the terracing on the townsend road side. I remember Salford having to spend a small fortune on the Willows to get a ground safety certificate.
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| Quote: theredshed "I remember Salford having to spend a small fortune on the Willows to get a ground safety certificate.'"
Yep. If memory serves, there's a bit about this in Graham Morris's book.
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| Quote: Chico "There was an article in New Society in the early 80s that followed Leeds United's Service Crew (they had also been featured on ITV at a similar time - News at Ten or World In Action, something like that). The RL crowd at Headingley was shown as an example of a more sedate family atmosphere - a world away from football. That said, there's stuff in this book, although a pretty poor source, I've heard to be trueQuote: Chico "Quote: Chico "I'd start with Framing the Future from 1994 - good luck finding a copy!'"
I have a copy (somewhere).'"
Thanks for that mmp.
Iain - Any chance I can borrow that? If you can find it?
Quote: Chico "Quote: Chico "Just replied.
Just found out something of broader topical interest.
Following the Hillsborough disaster, the Taylor report addressed 'endemic hooliganism, and overcrowding on terraces' in rundown stadia throughout sport. Evidence suggesting the above was a problem in RL too, was based on just a single visit to a rugby league event. A 1989/1990 Salford match!!!
It was this report and its financial implications that contributed to some clubs, such as Swinton, being forced into selling their rundown grounds. Thus, alleged behaviour of Salford fans apparently contributed to the demise of Swinton. Of course, this suggestion is hardly truthful, as many more factors, that are perhaps a tad less biased than the Taylor report, will have impacted on clubs like Swinton.'"
New ground safety legislation was already in place before Hillsborough. This was following the Bradford City fire disaster in 1985 and the Popperwell enquiry. If I remember correctly I think Swinton were forced to demolish the wooden seating stand at the back of the terracing on the townsend road side. I remember Salford having to spend a small fortune on the Willows to get a ground safety certificate.'"
Indeed it was and it had a huge impact on many RL clubs (and football of course). Although according to Tony Collins, further legislation followed the 'Taylor report' which in effect ended stadia such as Station Road.
Interestingly, Collins also links the legislation (Following the 'Popplewell Inquiry' into the Bradford City disaster and subsequent inclusion of RL stadiums under the jurisdiction of the 1975 Safety of Sports Grounds act) to the demise of Central Park in which their capacity was cut from 30,000 to 12,000. I can only assume that the Taylor Report further damaged (excuse the pun) the life of Central Park.
Of course, RL, is arguably guilty of a failure to invest in stadia during more profitable eras. There seems to be naive and ignorant 'wait and somethin'll turn up' attitude rife in the executive centres of the game. The ramifications of such have arguably contributed to run-down, beyond repair, expensive to run grounds such as the Willows.
If only clubs had taken better care themselves when they could, the game as a whole might well possess far more assets and carry far more power than it currently does.
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On the subject of ground safety and Hillsborough I was astonished to learn recently that a similar incident happened on the Leppings Lane terracing in 1981. The video below shows overcrowding on the terracing where 38 Tottenham supporters were crushed and injured at an FA Cup semi-final between Spurs and Wolves. They say but for the intervention of the police to open the pitch perimeter fencing gates a similar incident to 1989 would undoubtedly have occurred.
The overcrowding at this particular match was rumoured to be caused by turnstile operators allowing ticketless fans into the ground for cash at an all ticket fixture.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtzHVe2mEN0
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On the subject of ground safety and Hillsborough I was astonished to learn recently that a similar incident happened on the Leppings Lane terracing in 1981. The video below shows overcrowding on the terracing where 38 Tottenham supporters were crushed and injured at an FA Cup semi-final between Spurs and Wolves. They say but for the intervention of the police to open the pitch perimeter fencing gates a similar incident to 1989 would undoubtedly have occurred.
The overcrowding at this particular match was rumoured to be caused by turnstile operators allowing ticketless fans into the ground for cash at an all ticket fixture.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtzHVe2mEN0
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| I'd be careful saying legislation ended those old grounds. lots more was going on and don't forget - football clubs didn't start selling grounds on mass so there must have been other factors in play. First - the expectations of fans was changing and second, those old grounds were just that - they were old! The costs of maintaining them were huge at a time when the revenue base of the clubs was at a low point.
If anyone can remember the Sheddings in Oldham and can think back to how there were banks and all sorts to navigate through just to get up to a stand - and then think about the costs of maintaining that - you start to see just how much it would have cost to turn such a ground into a safe and modern stadium. If I'm right - half of the standing space was closed when we last played there?
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| Quote: theredshed "On the subject of ground safety and Hillsborough I was astonished to learn recently that a similar incident happened on the Leppings Lane terracing in 1981. The video below shows overcrowding on the terracing where 38 Tottenham supporters were crushed and injured at an FA Cup semi-final between Spurs and Wolves. They say but for the intervention of the police to open the pitch perimeter fencing gates a similar incident to 1989 would undoubtedly have occurred.
The overcrowding at this particular match was rumoured to be caused by turnstile operators allowing ticketless fans into the ground for cash at an all ticket fixture.
United went there in February 1989 and were lucky to escape a disaster as well - I've spoken to people who were there and they said they've never been so scared at a match. The Leppings Lane End was a death trap.
And it's all well and good saying that ground regulations were in place up to and at the time of the disaster - but the fact that Hillsborough hadn't have a valid safety certificate since 1981 shows you how well they were implemented. No one gave a sh*t about football fans and, to an extent, sporting fans full stop.
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| I think the ground sales of places like Station Road and the Watersheddings was a combination of debt, land values and increasing maintenance costs.
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| Quote: theredshed "On the subject of ground safety and Hillsborough I was astonished to learn recently that a similar incident happened on the Leppings Lane terracing in 1981. The video below shows overcrowding on the terracing where 38 Tottenham supporters were crushed and injured at an FA Cup semi-final between Spurs and Wolves. They say but for the intervention of the police to open the pitch perimeter fencing gates a similar incident to 1989 would undoubtedly have occurred.
The overcrowding at this particular match was rumoured to be caused by turnstile operators allowing ticketless fans into the ground for cash at an all ticket fixture.
Frightening stuff. It begs the question of why action wasn't taken until after the Hillsborough disaster, some 8 years later?
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| mmp- Good points. In this, it could be argued that the death of grounds like Station Rd may well have been the incentive clubs like Swinton needed to progress. However, as I've said, investment in your own infrastructure, when financially able to, is surely the way to avoid future problems. (Headingley stadium is perhaps the best example of this)
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