Bring Back Promotion & Relegation

Haven Horizon, a supporters group of Whitehaven RLFC, is calling on the Rugby Football League to review the current Super League licensing system and consider bringing back promotion and relegation. Since the move was made in 2009 to move to a franchise model, teams in the lower divisions have had their chances of reaching the top tier significantly reduced.

In all the other major sports in the UK, football, cricket, rugby union, promotion and relegation exists successfully, so why has it been taken away from rugby league?

Haven Horizon want to obtain as many signatures as possible to highlight that the rugby league community wants to see promotion and relegation return. If you agree and would like to see this happen, please sign this petition!

To sign the petition, click here -
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What's the point in bringing back P & R if eighty percent of Championship clubs are in 'partnership' with SL clubs with the DR farce? They may well bring it back but will there be any Championship clubs left who will be able to make the step up?

No championship club can make the step up, without making 12 or 13 signings, who would be a mix of journeymen and poor Aussies.
The question in should they be given tha chance to play in the top flight if they are the best team in the CC ?
Also, in view of the RL "favourites in SL, which club would be relegated.
With Salford favourites to take the wooden spoon this time, the RFL would be left with another conundrum.

There needs to be some minimum criteria agreed for any club to be eligible and then top club promoted and bottom club relegated, whoever this may be.

No thanks. We may not be there yet but we are slowly getting there. 1 thing that has come out of franchising is the amount of good young kids that have made the level in the last 2 years or so. This may have happened anyway, but there seems to be more good youngsters now than there has been in my memory. Also, more players went to the NRL from SL than vice versa this off season. That hasn't happened in a hell of a long time either. Teams arent going out for crap with an Aussie accent like they used to. Dont give me the exchange rate thing either. 5 or 6 years ago lower teams were signing up QLD cup players in their 30's. Now they look to be backing youth and its making us stronger.

If Championship teams want to get in the SL, follow Fev and Fax. Don't get involved in becoming a feeder club, work on your facilities and build your brand up to be something better than what we already have. ATEOTD when the next franchise comes around, there will be a couple of clubs in danger of dropping out.

Sounds like a daft idea as others have said. Would be a big step back for the game.

No there wont, Rules will be changed at least another 3 times and SLE & the RFL will have had more behind closed door meetings on how they can all carry on feasting on the top table for more years, Its not about RL its about DOG eat DOG survival of the fittest and cost cutting anyway possible to ensure they dont lose out next franchise. There are already fans of championship clubs turning their back on their once proud clubs as they percieve them to have "sold their souls". My personal opinion is i agree with them, Had my club, fax, twinned then i would no longer go to watch them either and i will not go to any away games who have supported this twinning venture. Instead i will buy more merchandise and lottery tickets on my own club and who are looking to develop their own youngsters.

Terrible idea and you provide little justification other than "teams in the lower divisions have had their chances of reaching the top tier significantly reduced" which isn't really a strong argument.

It would do more harm than good at this stage.

Come on, 1 team has come up in each of the franchising days so far. You cant just change half the league. Are you telling me also that the rest of my post isnt valid? I know it's easy for me to say being a fan of the team at the top of the tree, but Franchising has really helped us bring through some great players and I enjoy watching the game more now because of this than I did when I went to see Leeds face teams full of rubbish Aussies.

This again? There's a myth built up about promotion and relegation in other sports which rlsimply doesn't stand up to scrutinyrl as mav kindly explains in that link.

You may agree or disagree with P&R but "teams in the lower divisions have had their chances of reaching the top tier significantly reduced" [iis[/i a strong argument (perhaps not strong enough to win the debate, but it's a good point)

There's no doubt that franchising has pulled up the drawbridge to some extent. For me, if you stick with franchising then there also needs to be a [iguaranteed[/i way to make the grade, so that if you're going to invest in a championship side (or even below) you're not facing the arbitary risk of whatever a panel decides in the future. You need to know the exact criteria and be given a guarantee that if you meet it, you're in. Likewise, whilst existing struggling franchises should be given a [ireasonable[/i chance to sort themselves out, if they, over say 3 seasons, fail to meet the criteria that would otherwise allow a new club in, then they should be removed.

A guaranteed way? If you have the facilities and have put a plan in place thats say, better than Wakey or Cas, I am sure you will get in. At the moment i'd say Fev, Donny, Sheffield and Leigh are the only ones who could make it due to Stadium quality. Even when we had P&R some teams didnt get promoted, and that was when it wasnt even strict.

As a potential investor ( sadly I'm not, but hey ) I'd want it to be watertight. For example, I might have a 3 year plan to get us ready for SL, but what if Wakey and Cas get investors in the mean time and improve themselves a lot too? I put all this money in, improve my club, and then lose it. You need to know in advance that, if you do what you're asked, you're in, whatever. With P&R you have that - i.e. get yourself to the top of your league, make sure your ground's up to standard, and you're in. I'm NOT arguing for P&R, just saying that the current system doesn't guarantee anything for an investor in a championship side. What that means in practise is accepting that, in order to give the guarantee, you have to accept the possibility of increased numbers of teams in SL. Not a major problem, because if the criteria is sufficiently strong, then we're presumably happy to have them there. If it ever came about that teams were meeting the criteria too easily (Heaven Forbid!), meaning just too many clubs for SL to cope with - even with imagninative changes to fixtures - then that's fabulous news and means the criteria (for both getting in and staying in) can go up.

Thats not how anything works though. There is no guarantee that any club will get accepted into the SL if the clubs already there are in a better position. ATEOTD, apart from Crusaders, it has been spot on so far and I think the RFL have learnt from that. You can't just say, yes, you can come in if you do this, because what if the teams already there have done more? Why should they get kicked out when they deserve to be in? At the moment I think you have the 14 teams that best deserve to be there. In 18 months time, if Cas or Wakey haven't even started getting new stadiums, I'd like to see 2 new teams in and that will happen. Fax and another IMO. If Cas and Wakey do get it sorted though, then it'll take a good bid from below as new facilities added onto 2 teams going for Youth, playing well and averaging 8-10k will be hard to knock down, and rightly so.

Exactly what I was saying. To offer a guarantee (which makes investment much more secure) you have to accept that a situation may arise when a team meets the criteria, but likewise, no incumbant fails. Therefore the number of SL teams goes up by one. No catastrophe. If this happens a few times (it probably won't of course) the criteria will naturally rise and the things that all clubs have to do over the upcoming seasons as a club to stay in will go up too. Good. It mean standards are rising.

I know perfectly well that its not, as you say "how things work" today. So let's make things work better for potential investors.

The problem now is that, if you were thinking of investing in a championship side you face not only the normal competitive risk you would face with P&R ( i.e. not acheiving the finishing position you hoped for), but the additional risk [icompletely outside your control[/i that some existing clubs in SL will meet certain criteria that makes your bid fail.

A championship club cant compete with a SL club without being given the chance to prove they can do better with the money recieved from Sky and what increased attendances would do. I only use fax as a example as its my team but they are staying independant, Making profit, Have a stadium already fit for super league and competing regulary in finals and winning, top 3 most seasons. Yet without the chance to prove they can make the step up and given the 3 years to show it whats the point, I'm not going to go over ground that has been beaten to death over the last few years but chances must be given to stop the leagues going stale, playing the same teams week in week out, year in year out becomes boring, no matter what sport it is IMO.

Please for the love of god let smokey stay away from this thread !!!!.