Yesterday we saw that playing the best of 13 English Super League clubs against the best of 1 French Super League club plus nine semi-professional clubs is not enough to make a good international competition. (though the early injury to Stacul and later injuries to Larroyer and Mounis, disrupted the French team and had to be worth 12 points, and the fact that France's equivalent of Gareth Hock, Jamal Fakir, did not play, and was replaced by a poor Mathieu Griffi was worth about 12 points, each in terms of a French try scored and an English try stopped. That might have translated into a 32-18 scoreline).

Nevertheless a competitive French national team needs more full time professional French players which means more French Super League clubs.

The question is: how many French SL clubs are needed to make a difference?

Toulouse will make some difference after about three years in Super League. But will it be enough for France either to beat England or to get within 8 points of England each time they play? .

I don't think so. In my opinion Super League must have at least 4 French clubs to make a competitive national team.

That means not only must Toulouse join Super League in 20015, but the RFL and FFRXIII must start planning immediately for the development and promotion of two more French clubs as soon as possible after 2015. Avignon looks like a strong candidate, since its local administrators have done well to bring crowds to the French international games there. But I think that a fourth French Super League club will also be needed -- one with a different regional pool of junior players than the juniors in the southwest, who will have the chance to play for Catalans or Toulouse., or the in southeast, who will have the chance to play for Avignon. You need 4 French clubs to make sure that you can choose a national team from at least 80 full time professional players, 40 of whom will be playing SL almost every week, not the 20 professionals we we have now with only 10 playing Super League each week. The current situation is simply unworkable from the international point of view.

Also if you get 4 French clubs in Super League, you have a betterr chance of getting a reasonable paying TV contract from AL Jazeera Sports/beIN to complement the Sky money.

Some people might question whether even 4 French Super League clubs will be enough to have a competitive French national team. Obviously more would be better. 6 French teams would enable a French conference to be set up within Super League. But for that to be a genuine grassroots development, with plenty of French juniors in the system of each French club, will take many years. It seems to me that 4 French clubs is a reasonable medium term goal (within 8 years?), and we can wait and see the results for the French national team.

The next World Cup to be played in the northern hemisphere after 2013 will be in 2021. That will coincide with three Super League licensing periods: enough time for the 4 French clubs to be promoted to SL in 2015 (Toulouse) 2018 (Avignon?) and 2021 (Paris? Lyon?). By that time, if Toulouse is successful in SL, we may see the emergence of the rich patrons who now support rugby union in France, throwing financial support behind some French rugby league clubs. Only with some success can you build more success.

4 French Clubs in SL? You must be trolling now.

Surely?

Why? My argument makes sense to me. Where is the problem in my argument?

We don't need to drop Wakefield from SL to have 4 French clubs.

Or are you happy with the way things are now, with these huge scorelines in the internationals?

Some of the smarter English club chairmen, like Ian Lenagan, have said that England needs a strong France to play against if England is to improve. I am proposing a way to get there.

What is your solution? Or are you just trolling?

Im not worried about Wakefield being dropped, thats not my issue at all.
I dont need to come up with a solution, but to have 4 French Clubs in SL is lunacy!
What about clubs like Halifax, Leigh, Featherstone and Sheffield?, all knocking on the doors of SL
yet they will have even less of a chance of entering the 'promised land'
So we put all our efforts into helping French sides and sod our own?

Err, no.

If there were 4 French clubs in SL, wouldn't they be better off back in the French Leagues and help develope the French League and national team?

Why is it lunacy? I have explained the benefits to the development of a French national team. It will also make Super League look more like a European competiiton than the present M 62 regional parochial competition with London and Catalans as token add ons.



Sheffield is a different case than the other three. Promoting Halifax, Leigh and Featherstone to Super League will add nothing to Super League in terms of its ability to promote more people playing the game, and more important in terms of its ability to attract more money from TV and sponsors. Rugby league is massively under-resourced. Having it even more of an M 62 game than it already is will be ensuring it never gets out of its financial hole.



Helping French sides will not "sod" ENglish sides. As I have pointed out, and significant others like Lenagan agree, a stronger English team needs a stronger France.

A stronger England team doesn't need more M 62 clubs (Sheffield is another story). Rugby league in England needs more funding. A stronger France and hence a stronger international game will help enoormously.

Here's a novel idea...why don't the French improve that sorry excuse for a league they have and find ways to generate income there and improve the French national team by having a healthy French domestic league?

?

If they were in SL wouldn't they be better of back in the French league?




The French league is not professional and cannot become so for decades. Half the exisiting semi-pro clubs are village teams (Limoux, Lezignan, Pia etc) There is no money available to fund a professional French league at this time, especially not when so many existing clubs have tiny fans and supporter bases. .

The only way to create the possibilities of such a professional league would be to first have four French clubs inside an existing professional league (we have one, and its called Super League Europe), and then have their performances attract some big money men and TV support. But still you need players. It will take two decades for there to be enough French players to run a 10 team French professional league. If there is to be a chance of a French professional league it will require 4 - 6 strong French clubs established in Super League to show the way and provide the core. It will not be created out of a tiny fan and player base, and a very weak sponsor situation, that we now have.

The OP is correct, if a tad optimistic, Toulouse is likely, others not so

We don't need any French clubs in super league, to be called Super League Europe as we are in Europe ourselves, if all the teams in France don't have big enough fan bases ,and little in sponsorship as you say, how are they going to compete, or will the S,L,E, be expected to finance these clubs, and jettison heartland clubs to make way

Four clubs won't happen. Two perhaps. Beyond that, it's up to the French sport to strengthen it's own leagues...or get more players into SL clubs.

It will be a bit odd, perhaps deceptive, to call a competition Super League Europe if all of the clubs are from from only small part of one European country.



When a team is only semi-professional it does not need much sponsorship, and moreover corporate sponsors are not interested in sponsoring them if their product is not seen on TV.

However when a team is professional and is on TV then corporate sponsors are more interested.

The big appeal of Toulouse in SL is that it can raise big corporate sponsorship from the city and its region once the club is participating in a televised professional competition. Under such circumstances, and with the added factor of a local derby with Catalans, Toulouse is sure to increse its fan base fourfold or more, just as Catalans did in their first year in Super League.

Whether SLE decides to jettison other heartland clubs will be determined by those heartland clubs financial viability. As we have seen many of the heartland clubs are in financial trouble because they don't have sufficient sponsorship or fan base to sustain themselves, and aren't likely to get them, because they are either too small or too close to another SL club. That is why clubs like Halifax, Featherstone and Leigh don't have great prospects of joining SL, and why some existing SL clubs will be dropped regardless of whether more French clubs join SL.

If Toulouse is a success as Catalans has been, it will create more receptiveness at the RFL for future French clubs to follow if they can be financially viable and bring some TV money. I am sure that AL Jazeera Sports/beIN sport TV will be interested in giving more money for a larger French presence in Super League, which will make Red Hall happy.

The key to this expansion is Toulouse's success --- financially, on the playing field, and most important in producing lots of juniors to perpetuate the club team and French rugby league into the future. That will also have the spinoff of helping the semi-pro French league, because the juniors who don't make it into the Toulouse or Catalans professional roster will be recruited into the semi-pro French league, and improve its standards of play. Also some of these Toulouse juniors who don't make it at Toulouse or Catalans can be recruited into future French expansion clubs as they start up.

As I said before, success can breed success. But first the RFL and FFRXIII must take the bold moves to get the ball rolling in expansion.

You do have a point that just having Catalans in SL isn't going to improve the French national side much more, but i don't agree with having 4 French clubs.

For me a way of improving France and Wales is the RFL bringing in a rule that each club must have at least one French and Welsh player in their 25 man squads.

I think some people need to get over the fact that SL isn't an English league.

Four French clubs in the SL? If they're good enough, why not? Lots of benefits IF they're good enough: increase French pool of talent, improves international RL, potential for bigger TV deal via French TV.

Don't see what the issue is, personally. Maybe not all at once. One at a time so the quality of the league doesn't go down.