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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: SCR-SeaDiver "As someone who is going to enjoy the watching the very finest that the sport can produce and knowing that you side with the RFL in all of the topics argued on here,what would your thoughts be if Dr Koukash bought the major players from the Australian side (should they win the World Cup,of course,and backroom staff,and house them at the SCS at Barton,all for the benefit of Salford City Reds ? )
I believe he has the finance to do that.
Like myself,he may be unimpressed with the standard of Super League at the moment and the Academy system has failed - hence the scrapping of the Under 20's - and it seems he is not prepared to wait for success.
Where does that leave the RFL as they had a review following the dismal England performance in the 2008 World Cup
and decided the Under 20's was the way ahead and the way to catch-up to the southern hemisphere sides ?'"

Firstly, i dont agree with everything the RFL does. I do agree with some of it, and i know some of it isnt down to them. I will go on to disagree with them twice below.
Secondly, i agree, for some clubs the academy and youth development system isnt working.

Thirdly, I think we need some form of talent distribution, and some form of restriction on clubs buying all the talent. Saying that if all teams were playing by the rules and Salford were able to bring over some top quality players I would be in favour of it. I think it would be a very good thing for them and as such for the game. I think that the biggest names in our sport are what helps us sell it.

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OUR DAY WILL COME:cartoons/WB73.gif



the problem with rugby league and football is that players have contracts to the club only.
in rugby union and cricket the best players have contracts to club and country.

now which of the four sports do best on the international front?

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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: bryanthered "

now which of the four sports do best on the international front?'"



Then again, have you seen some of the crowds at county cricket? And it is a struggle to take seriously rounds of the RU premiership that clash with internationals, especially their World Cup.

It isn't good that the cap hasn't been raised in so long, and it is becoming a problem. Not just for losing the likes of Sam tomkins, but also somebody like Bryn Hargreaves. It is a short career, with little security, that doesn't by itself leave you all that well prepared for much else afterwards.
On the other hand, most of the clubs still run at a loss and we've had 3 clubs go under in recent years, and others looking near the brink at times. Koukash talks about a level playing field with the NRL, but without their revenue, having their cap would be daft.
A rise to maybe £1.8 million is possibly due. Or a couple of players off cap. Much more than that and you'd have to be looking at 12 or even 10 teams, which focuses resources, but diminishes us in several ways.

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[i:10za56ci]Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One[/i:10za56ci]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6505.jpg

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Quote: PopTart "Well no I don't know that it nearly killed our sport. Why so?

Smaller clubs not being able to manage their business is not the same as top clubs killing the game because they have too much.'"

Because people stopped going.

And this is not about clubs managing their businesses. That aspect of the cap vanished when they removed the percentage of turnover rule. Any club is now free to spend it's way into oblivion if it so chooses.

There are not enough top quality players to go around. Raising the cap to allow the handful of rich clubs to buy up all these players will not improve the quality of SL or RL in general. You already have club chairmen complaining about player wage inflation - how much do you think wages would rise if it became a free-for-all.

In any case there is virtually zero chance of this happening as it would require a majority of SL chairmen to vote for it.

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[i:10za56ci]Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One[/i:10za56ci]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6505.jpg

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Quote: Mild Rover "It isn't good that the cap hasn't been raised in so long, and it is becoming a problem. Not just for losing the likes of Sam tomkins, but also somebody like Bryn Hargreaves. It is a short career, with little security, that doesn't by itself leave you all that well prepared for much else afterwards.
On the other hand, most of the clubs still run at a loss and we've had 3 clubs go under in recent years, and others looking near the brink at times. Koukash talks about a level playing field with the NRL, but without their revenue, having their cap would be daft.
A rise to maybe £1.8 million is possibly due. Or a couple of players off cap. Much more than that and you'd have to be looking at 12 or even 10 teams, which focuses resources, but diminishes us in several ways.'"

A thought that occurred to me last night...

What if a club were able to add £1 to it's SC for every £1 of Sky money it was willing to forgo? This would allow the rich clubs to increase their cap and buy better players while providing a larger pool of money to be distributed to the other clubs, somewhat offsetting the negative effects. It would also have the effect of increasing the net amount of money in the game.

There's probably any number of problems with that idea that I haven't thought of, mind. icon_lol.gif

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[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif



Quote: GT "We're not paying the full salary cap at the moment you daft sod.

'"


Evidence or gtfo. icon_wink.gif

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Someday, somewhere, today’s empires are tomorrow’s ashes.:



Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "
Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "We're not paying the full salary cap at the moment you daft sod.

'"


Evidence...'"

rlHere.rl

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Quote: SmokeyTA "We have plenty of clubs able to spend more than this amount.

I can't fathom why there is such a large amount of people who seem absolutely wedded to not only this form of cap, but this specific value of it. This figure was a figure judged attainable over 10 years ago. It has dropped about 30% in real terms, yet we still have a portion of our fan base insisting it is still the right figure and structure.'"

eusa_clap.gif Smokey, you're the stopped clock of RLFANS. Mostly wrong, but right twice a day.

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22/03/2013 Get LEIGH outta wigan:



Quote: RLBandit "
very funny and sooo true

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Quote: Kosh "A thought that occurred to me last night...

What if a club were able to add £1 to it's SC for every £1 of Sky money it was willing to forgo? This would allow the rich clubs to increase their cap and buy better players while providing a larger pool of money to be distributed to the other clubs, somewhat offsetting the negative effects. It would also have the effect of increasing the net amount of money in the game.

There's probably any number of problems with that idea that I haven't thought of, mind. It's not far removed from the 'tax' system they had in ... ( I'm going to say US basketball, but I could be wrong on that - it was one of the big US sports anyway ). You could pay over the cap, but had to match every $1 excess with $1 paid to a fund which was distributed ( not sure if to other clubs, or to grassroots, or both ).

For me (repeating ad nauseum), I think there's only two things you should be trying to stop: clubs going bust, and clubs hogging all the talent. You can do both without a simple 'flat' cap. The first you address by rules about only spending what you can afford (though if a rich donor is prepared to give you money, you can spend it). The second you address with very tight limits on the number of players you can pay 'star' wages to. The point being that we should have a mechanism that would allow, say if Abramovich suddenly decided he was League fan, him to bring in Dan Carter ( and the veritable shed-load of great PR).

I've said many times, that I don't believe the "Wigan problem" pre-SL was due primarily to them having an outstanding 1st XIII, it was due to them sweeping up all the others too, on the bench and in the wider squad that were then kept away from the other teams. If Wigan in those days could only have 13 'stars', then the actual team put out on any one day (injuries, etc) would have been less dominant, and moreover, other clubs would have had access to the other players not in that list of 13.

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It most likely won't happen and he has hardly been mentioned but I would like to see Shaun Edwards be given a chance, I think he would be available after That Six Nations too, he wasn't given a chance in league as a coach which is a shame and he would do a fantastic job even if it's until the end of the season. Salford have the money now so it's worth a shot.

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Quote: number 6 "catch 22 is the salary cap!

raise it- you will get clubs with money buying up all the top players

keep it as it is or lower it and risk losing quality players to NRL or union

maybe a smaller increase of another £250k may help keep some of ourt top players in our game'"

But why does it have to be as simple as "raise the cap" or "lower the cap"? This completely restricts the debate to basically rich club vs poor club, when there are a ton of other good options...limited number outside the cap, etc, etc.

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Quote: bryanthered "the problem with rugby league and football is that players have contracts to the club only.
in rugby union and cricket the best players have contracts to club and country.

now which of the four sports do best on the international front?'"

Yes, but in all cases, note how it's the group with the most money who control the contracts. The RFU and ECB are richer than the clubs and the counties. The RFL and FA are poorer than (at least many of) the clubs.

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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: Kosh "A thought that occurred to me last night...

What if a club were able to add £1 to it's SC for every £1 of Sky money it was willing to forgo? This would allow the rich clubs to increase their cap and buy better players while providing a larger pool of money to be distributed to the other clubs, somewhat offsetting the negative effects. It would also have the effect of increasing the net amount of money in the game.

There's probably any number of problems with that idea that I haven't thought of, mind.
That seems like a reasonable enough idea.

I like the simplicity of the current system, but as most clubs can't afford an increase, some sort of compromise might be in order after so many years without a rise.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "We have plenty of clubs able to spend more than this amount.

I can't fathom why there is such a large amount of people who seem absolutely wedded to not only this form of cap, but this specific value of it. This figure was a figure judged attainable over 10 years ago. It has dropped about 30% in real terms, yet we still have a portion of our fan base insisting it is still the right figure and structure.'"


Well said eusa_clap.gif

I get the impression that a few clubs could pay more than the salary cap but it is in all of the owners interest at the clubs that could do so to simply keep the current status quo. As things stand the top clubs stay at the top anyway, without them needing to do much or pump much money in, and the weaker clubs cant even spend enough to compete anyway. Koukash is just what the game needs to spice things up and smash the cosy old boys network of Lenegan, Hetherington, McManus and Moran. There is far more money in the game than there was 10 or 20 years ago and players are being paid far less in real terms. There is far more Sky money being given to each club now, attendances are greatly increased, ticket prices are up and yet we are constantly being told there is no money in the game and players wages are going down year on year. Something doesnt add up.

111 posts in 8 pages 
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