I will challenge that as they are clearly bringing something new.

8 - 10 new fans from a virgin market place.
Broadcast of rl in an entirely new market place.

I'm not sure what your expectations are in terms of new players and coaches, but it's not like rugby league players are just loitering around the world ready to play when a super league team turns up. It takes at least a generation to generate your own talent. There are ways of short cutting this by taking talent from other sports and retraining them. But if you are expecting 8-10 year old who may have first picked up a rugby ball in Canada 2 seasons ago to now be the core of the Canadian team then you will be disappointed.

Saints and Wigan and Leeds produce loads of youth each and every year and maybe 1 or 2 make then grade every couple of years. So if in 10 years time the wolf pack has 2 or 3 homegrown players in their squad they will be doing as well as top SL teams and better than some others.

As for providing huge salarys for SL players, you have by your own words indicated that they have by defacto boosted SL from a 12 team league to show iit can maintain 13 full time professional teams of similar standing.

I do question the longer term structure and strategy, for example how will they grow their youth set up if they are the only rl team, their youth need a local competition. But this may already being addressed.

But have they expanded the game, yes they have. Whether it is something that can be maintained over 10-20 years is another matter.

Juse think in 10 to 20 yrs time we might be talking about Toronto in the same Breath has Paris another failure or in the same Breath has Catalan

Quote ="Someday"Juse think in 10 to 20 yrs time we might be talking about Toronto in the same Breath has Paris another failure or in the same Breath has Catalan'" Yep the future is uncertain, the difference for new entry teams is that if it does not work in the top flight they have a harder time sustaining at a lower league. Plenty of traditional rl clubs have also failed either on the field or financially. So it's not limited to new entrants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ague_clubs

Quote ="Someday"Juse think in 10 to 20 yrs time we might be talking about Toronto in the same Breath has Paris another failure or in the same Breath has Catalan'" Yep the future is uncertain, the difference for new entry teams is that if it does not work in the top flight they have a harder time sustaining at a lower league. Plenty of traditional rl clubs have also failed either on the field or financially. So it's not limited to new entrants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ague_clubs

Quote ="bewareshadows"Yep the future is uncertain, the difference for new entry teams is that if it does not work in the top flight they have a harder time sustaining at a lower league. Plenty of traditional rl clubs have also failed either on the field or financially. So it's not limited to new entrants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ague_clubs'" It would have been great if all those clubs had survived we might have been bigger then football we will never know

Quote ="bewareshadows"Yep the future is uncertain, the difference for new entry teams is that if it does not work in the top flight they have a harder time sustaining at a lower league. Plenty of traditional rl clubs have also failed either on the field or financially. So it's not limited to new entrants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ague_clubs'" It would have been great if all those clubs had survived we might have been bigger then football we will never know

Is it possible for Toronto lovers not to type the words TV DEAL ? How about typing the words 'Grass Roots Rugby/Canadian Juniors & Academy set up' instead....whoops !

Question - is that how North American sport operates though ? Isn't it all underpinned by franchising and TV deals, rather the frankly outdated UK model that grassroots and self development are key.

If the latter really works then why is the UK game still in such a precarious state ?

Would half an academy team be enough? You know like the hull clubs.

I've no idea if Toronto will make it or go the same way as the crusaders. But RL in England is moving in ever decreasing circles at present. Turning away the chance to grow the game on the basis that in two years they haven't a team full of Canadians is complete cobblers.

1. Is 3 years years enough to implement an Academy set up or talent pathway for local talent? Has there even been a discussion in those 3 years towards plans to implement such a set up?

2. Will Toronto have to run a reserve set up as every other SL club has to from next season?

3. Do you know how many Fev academy products are playing there trade in Super League?

Yeah franchising and TV deals are the end product but to produce the vast amount of players they need for they're major sports they have a monster size school sports system from High school to University, producing all the talent for the NFL, NBA etc. Ateotd you still have to get kids playing and invested in RL long term, whether that's at school or through Community Clubs to have any long term success. How does that fit in the North American system I don't know and I haven't heard anyone talk about it either.

The Aussies use a similar system to us and they're very successful, the difference is RL over there is the main sport.

The main reason that RL is in such a poor state is that, since Union came out of the closet and became a pro sport, we have not been able to plunder their talent at will and their version of Rugby, with a far better national and international spread, dwarfs RL in just about every aspect of the game and it receives mass coverage from most media outlets and RL has been shoved down the pecking order.

"Grassroots" is a different problem altogether and with the "playstation generation" more happy in front of a screen, than they are in the real world, participation numbers are falling, although this is not by any means exclusive to RL.

These issues, together with the sports abject inability to promote the sport effectively mean that our sport has become even more marginalised.
Although I have issues with Toronto's inclusion, they may well help with our profile but, this still doesn't make them a sensible addition to SL or to the competition over here, which, for me, is just plain bonkers. Around 3500 miles in each direction for a weekly round of SL is just crazy.
Perpignan is far enough and that's roughly 1000 miles (each way).

There are now 4 amateur clubs in Toronto. This is the same number as you will find in Leigh and Warrington.
However, Toronto have only been in existence for 3 years not 100.

If we are going to have a “grass roots” discussion is should be aimed at the heart lands where the game is on its arris at grass roots but then that wouldn’t fit the narrative would it

Yes Leigh has 2 amateur clubs, but I don't think there could be 3, as there aren't any more playing fields in the town, unless a school one was used.
p.s. Wikipedia might be wrong about 4 in Ontario, it could be more or less....the wonders of Google, eh Steph


Did you know Serbia has 17 teams, well you do now !

Really??

You think 3 years in existence is enough to set all that up?

Do you have any idea what it takes to run an academy?

You always set up the main team first as that is what will provide the funding and infrastructure for the rest..


Of course TV money is also important, I don't see football or rugby union scoffing at better TV exposure and funding.

Warrington has rylands, woolston, crosfields, latchford, culcheth eagles and burtonwood Bulldogs. Pretty sure that's 6.

Bank quay. 7

Well said, but Culcheth is nearer to Leigh, than Warrington !

Believe (happy to be corrected) that there were 4 Amateur Rugby League Clubs in Toronto at the time of the birth of the Wolfpack. This isn't to take anything away from Toronto on their fantastic achievement thus far and it is my belief that next year SL will be better with them in it and the Championship better without them.

I didnt google it. It was an announcement from the wolfpac over the weekend that a 4th amateur club has now sprung up to join the other 3.

Amazing really when you consider there are about 10 other team sports being played in toronto to compete with

It's a huge city, with the largest population in the country (around 2.6million). You'd be disappointed if it didn't have those sports on offer.
We played 8 or 9 at our school and there were only around 1000 pupils there



It's utterly irrelevant how many sports are on offer. I'm more concerned with the 7000 mile round trip, just to play for 80 minutes - it's just not sensible and probably not sustainable in the medium to long term..

This is such a cop-out and syptomatic of the "lets blame the easy answer" culture in RL.

There are PlayStations in the RU heartlands, yet its participation levels aren't declining. They're growing.

The RFL should be asking themselves why the UK's second largest city Birmingham population 1.3098 million doesn't have a professional rugby league team

Because 95% of Birmingham's population only understand cricket

Because no investor or community has started one.

This is the confusion that most have. The governing body is there to manage the game. It should help clubs set themselves up. But it is not there to bank roll or form clubs.

The rfl did not set up saints, Wigan, Leeds, Hull etc. They were all formed independently and joined a league.

Could it be that potential investors see the product as poor & badly managed by the RFL.

But its IN Warrington!