You obviously have little knowledge of the game or players.
I guess that happens in a small Goldfish bowl in the North of England.

The Toughest games in the Sport are State of Origin, acknowledged by pretty well everyone.
Hayne has been the stand out Blues player in around half of the games that NSW have played in the last 3 years.
He has nearly been the best player on the Park in a losing team several times.
He was pretty poor for Fiji in the 2008 World Cup? he was one of the best players of the Tournament.
How many players can set a game on fire when played out of position and on the side of the field that barely saw any ball in last years 4 nations?
He scored one try, set one up and was called back on one fair move in the final, is that poor form?

Brett Morris must be average if you say so, its easy to be the leading try scorer in the toughest league in the World.
Who was the top try scorer in last years 4 nations again?
Easy to say he is on the end of a dream team but that dream team often scores through the Centres without the ball getting out to the Wings.
Shentons technique? went in for a tackle high and got caught in the head? copybook


If a team can not lose 1 player from any position and still perform they do not deserve to win anything.
Losing a Halfback may disrupt a team, Centres should have cover (he is not really that good anyway, how is he this year

)


Lee Smith was good against Australia in the first match I recall. Did he get another go?

The wingers you mention that put "fear" into Salford, Wakefield and company have not done so well at this stage of their careers against top opposition,
I loved the Winger that gobbed it off to Hayne when he scored, should look at the final scoreboard, thats what counts.

Poorest pack in the big three?

Sure they are, Forwards win games and lay the platform, if Oz are so poor what has gone wrong last year?
England make one final in around 6 years against an inconsistent Kiwi side and suddenly you are Contenders?
Peacock and Morley are just about done. None of the backs would make the Oz team or even a State side, half would not regularly make the NRL first teams.

How are your Fullbacks for depth?
They say their is a young man that left England for a better life 6 years ago and has played 3 first grade games may fit the bill?
He is still not sure who he wants to play for but as England is a certainty and Oz is pretty well no chance he is available
Your points were again?

Were you one of those that suggested England would smash the rest in 2008?



When you lose by 30 at home there is no close game or rub of the green, you were hammered at the end of 80 minutes FACT.

You still haven't addressed the two tries we scored (within 5 minutes of eachother, I looked up game info after making my post) down Shenton's side, minutes before he went off. Perhaps you can rely on the fact that we then scored 2 tries in 2 minutes after he went off, so my apologies, Shenton made all the difference.

And the ace up my sleeve here is you Poms also forget that Hodges went off for us in the first half. That's Justin Hodges, a far better centre/player than Michael Shenton. The difference? Australia's depth (which seems to the point you're arguing against). The replacement of Kurt Gidley was seamless. Heck, he even slotted in opposing the great Michael Shenton.


That's not by chance, but 46-16 in the most important game is. Right, I guess 52-4 and 44-4 (the scorelines of the last two significant games between England/GB and Australia) were lucky as well.


I'm not saying he's performed well in general on the wing during Tests, but in his last game against England he scored a try, a try-assist, ran 137m, made a linebreak and 5 tackle breaks. Not bad when you have to share a backline with Inglis and Slater. Certainly not a BOG ALL effort.


I see you dropped the "his knees are shot" line for "a aging, but still class". That's better.

Besides Lockyer, those other 3 have at least 5 years left in the game. Inglis possibly a decade. The fact is, WE HAVE those players, so what kind of imaginary point are you trying to make? While we enjoy these players at the peak of their powers, we nurse babies in waiting like Josh Dugan and Lachlan Coote (his game is so much like Slater's it's not funny).


Widely regarded by English-based message board posters. Everyone else has Petro as world's best prop as a given. For the backrow, most toss up between Sam Thaiday and Paul Gallen. Personally, i'd also consider Sam Burgess and Luke Lewis.

England don't have an 80 minute Test game, as proven by the way their forwards always tire and struggle to keep pace towards the end of both halves. Be it physical or mental stamina, England forwards lack either or both. Australia's don't.

Now Now CGD.

You are missing the point here.

This is a Pommie forum.

Consequently all English players are far superior to shiithouse players like Inglis, Slater or Hayne. The reason they havent won anything since God was at school is a combination of bad luck, poor foreign coaches and the fact superleague is full of ancient Aussies who are somehow keeping the many thousands of supreme English athletes from getting the chance to play rep footy and if they did would undoubtedly win everything going in RL.

You should know this by now.

I was going to move on because I cant be ars*d trolling through threads and proving points usually but...with two posters I feel are full of CRAP I will make an exception,

One bad crowd says it all?

You cherry pick one crowd to make your point?
Go back over the numbers across the board and make a point?
How does England and France go for numbers?
How did the All Golds tour go?
How did the Kiwi tour go where England finally won a series a couple of years ago.
The last World Cup in Great Britain nearly bankrupted the game there it was so well planned and attended.
Last years 4 Nations which is the current stats says England had an average of 16,500 per match.
Eng v France 11K
Eng v Oz 23k
Eng v Kiwis 19k
Final Eng v Oz 31k

So England average 21k in their games all at home
You quote a game from 4 years ago with 27.5 K as a comparison? Maybe If it was the "Big Two" it may have been different but England/GB have not made the final in Oz since the concept was started.
You heard of Apples and Apples comparisons?
You compare World cup averages with little Island teams involved with 4 nations averages, it shows you up Mate.

While we are at it, My response was to the Cherry picking of Test players by Oz and another poster said "like England is doing to Oz"

HARDLY..

I did say I was not sure about the last Test games of the players I mentioned.

Craig Fitzgibbon was not current as he was not selected for the Anzac Test match before he signed with Hull and he was a journeyman that was recalled for a couple of games at the back end of his solid Club career.

Berrigan as you point out was current but at the tail end of his rep career and was offered a longer and much larger financial deal to move to Hull. When you are nearly 30 and get offered a Kings ransom over a long contract, cant blame him.

Matt King was a current Test Winger, he is the best example of a player moving at the top of his game, at the end of the day he is a Winger not a Halfback or Hooker or a key player, he struggled big time for a long while when he did not get the Storm service he was used to.
There are several articles where King says he was being paid "mad money" to go to Warrington, more than the best player in the NRL was getting at the time.

Cherry Picking?

Paying over the odds for longer contracts is more realistic.

Just a thought, has Hull looked at Luke Burt, Nathan Cayless or Nathan Hindmarsh? two of those were recent Test players, Could they be lured to the Club with the Master Coach and the best fans in the game?
Now thats Cherry picking.
Eric Grothe Jnr will be bundled in for free.


Cheers

You can't be *rsed trolling? Doesn't appear that way!


No, you cherry picked one crowd to make a point. I'm using your method of argument on yourself to prove that you don't have a point.

You said "What was the final crowd? 31k pretty sad all round for a country that aspires to be a player at Test level."

So who's cherry picking? You picked the 4N Final, I picked the 3N Final. I'm picking the same cherries you're picking and showing your comments up for what they are.


Last years 4 Nations which is the current stats says England had an average of 16,500 per match.
Eng v France 11K
Eng v Oz 23k
Eng v Kiwis 19k
Final Eng v Oz 31k

So England average 21k in their games all at home. =#FF4000Yes, didn't I just say that?'"

Oh yea its been so tough for Queensland these last 5 years hasnt it. How about we stop the Origin series because right now its hard to see when NSW will win a series.

How the hell are we going to grow international RL if we dont continue and hopefully expand these kinds of tournaments? Do some just not want an International game or something?

Exactly.

Last 5 State of Origin series results:
QLD wins - 11 (5 series wins)
NSW wins - 4 (0 series wins)

Last 5 Aus/NZ major tournament results:
Aus wins - 4 + 1 by GP (2 series wins)
NZ wins - 3 (2 series wins including World Champions)
Draws - 1

Even if you include the heavily Australian-biased ANZAC test (basically a meaningless friendly held every year in Australia, and (since the SL War) the only year it wasn't held in Aus it was won by NZ) it still stacks up closer.

Last three Aus/NZ finals - NZ 2 - 1* Aus (*which was a draw after 80mins).

Think these Aussies need to realise that their little inter-state rivalry isn't as big a contest as they think it is. The Kiwis would smash both of them.

I agree.

Hull v Hull is probably bigger.


<s>

Your comebacks are getting worse by the day...

Last time I looked, Prisoner of Mother of England = POME............but hey, you Australians Know best.

SHould the 4 Nations be scrapped? No next question please.

So reading through this thread, would the question be because of Cronulla not winning a premiership since 1967 should they be kicked out of the NRL?

yes Cronulla should be dumped to NSW cup where they belong. next question.

We did play NZ in October 2007 in Wellington. I hope we play them at home and away in October 2012, to complete a 3 test series.



Firstly, England should already have built up the hype over three years of 4Ns & June test. English fans already know the team exists. RL people already know a World Cup will be held in 2013. There'll be a June test in 2012 and 2013 to help build hype anyway. Secondly, as for building the hype of Scotland, Wales and Ireland - how will an England series do that? it won't! How will a GB tour negatively affect the Celts? It won't. The Celts will only get a repeat of this year's European Championship, 3 games, regardless of whether England or GB toured.

A Kangaroo test series against GB in the UK in 2011 would have been great, say with a tour game against the Super League Champions, maybe against the Challenge Cup winning club as well. As it stands, a Great Britain tour of NZ would work well. I'd see the following games working:

13th October: European Cup Week 1, Roses Origin Game 1
20th October: European Cup Week 2, Roses Origin Game 2, Trans Tasman Test 2
27th October: European Cup Week 3, Trans Tasman Test 3 (England players fly to Southern Hemisphere, get a week off)
31st October: Warriors vs GB - Mt Smart, Auckland (mid-week, Wednesday night)
3rd November: NZ Maori vs GB - Rotorua/Hamilton/Whangarei
10th November: NZ-GB 1st test - Christchurch/Dunedin
17th November: NZ-GB 2nd test - Wellington
24th November: NZ-GB 3rd test - Eden Park, Auckland

GB won't be touring so all that was a waste of time mate......looks good though...we could give it a crack in 2025

An international side versus a club team on tour would be much more appealing to a lot of people than the WCC. I used to watch the WCC with excitement, but ultimately, it doesn't mean very much to most Australians. An expanded WCC certainly would not. Also, it would undermine the finals series and Grand Finals of both nations - unless it was run roughly like soccer's WCC, which uses the champions only from each country. We'd need to add the Catalans, Crusaders and Warriors just to fill out numbers, and if those teams hadn't performed well in NRL/SL, it could undermine the concept.

Rugby Union successfully stages Lions tours, where the Lions play midweek tour games against clubs in front of good crowds. The Wallabies, All Blacks and Springboks have all played tour games in recent years against British or Irish clubs, in front of excellent crowds. The Wallabies played and defeated:
* [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4QlYsPdykYGloucester 17-5 at Kingsholm Ground Crowd; 16,500 (capacity)[/url. Tuesday November 3rd, 2009.
* [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7LvrlbvMwUCardiff Blues 31-3 at Cardiff City Soccer Stadium. Crowd 14,622 (capacity is 26,82icon_cool.gif[/url. Tuesday November 24, 2009. This year, the Wallabies will play Irish provincial team Munster and English Premiers Leicester Tigers.

South Africa payed and lost to
* Leicester Tigers at a sold-out Welford Road Stadium, crowd 24,000. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOIZ9EZO2N0Leicester won 22-17[/url (the video shows how passionate the Leicester club fans during the game and when they won). Friday November 6th, 2009.
* Saracens at Wembley, crowd 46,281 (capacity 90,000). [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldOKPaLnQJw&feature=relatedSaracens won 24-23[/url (the other video doesn't have the crowd noise, but features a performance review by Andy Farrell, ironically)

New Zealand's All Blacks played Munster to a capacity 26,500 crowd at a redeveloped Thomond Park, Tuesday November 18, the mid week ABs winning narrowly. Tell me the electric atmosphere of this game wouldn't be good for RL:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8hzfrTPo6E&feature=relatedMunster vs All Blacks - Electric Atmosphere, Hakas and Tries[/url

union players have the energy to play tour games against club sides because they spend 80% of the game laying on the ground...

A few of the Manly guy's that went on the 2009 WCC tour absolutley loved it, conversing with the locals in Leeds.It's up to the Australiasian club's to make a big deal out off it like Manly and the Roosters did.

From memory 40 Manly fans went over there to the UK and the next one I'd think will get close to 100. I'm hoping to be 1 of them

what does 17 englishmen,in GB shirts, beating NZ in a 3 game series,do to build up the hype for the 2013 world cup??....england beating NZ on the other hand lays down a marker...GB has no relavence in the current international league structure...



firstly...take ireland off that list...they want nothing to do with GB

secondly....in the unlikey senario that wales or scotland produce a talent good enough to displace 1 of the 17 englishmen that would make up a GB team in the next couple of years,then this lad will be wrenched from the welsh or scottish sides while these side are trying to develop their own sides..

GB will only be worth bringing back when the welsh and scottish start producing players good enough to warrant GB selection....like i keep saying...if theres 17 englishmen on the field...play as england cos thats what they are..

Haha true, it was. If England do tour in 07, would be good to see a couple of tour games like the Warriors and the Maori. The Maori always present a strong challenge, the Warriors and England would still attract a strong crowd and play a strong game without their frontline test stars.



Well that was Lote Tuqiri who dived out of play to win the game for Leicester

Seriously though, the Roos would have played clubs in 2001 were it not for the scare after 9/11. On a Tueday night in October 2002, the Kiwis attracted a good crowd over 12K at the Boulevard against Hull - good effort really.

Often wondered this would an England vs Celtic Nations be beneficial to all parties?

I mean for England obviously and the other home nations.

One of the thing's I would like to see taken from Union is the 'Grand Slam' tour

If NZ beats England 3 nil, that's a pretty awful marker then!



OK, but have Northern Irish people suddenly left the Union?



Again, as I showed above, not true. Welsh and Scottish reps won't have to miss any games for their team.



How many Welsh/Scottish need to be in the team until it can be called GB? What number, and what percentage of the team should they make up? What about players from the midlands, the south, London? As I said, it never seem to matter that there were no Welsh, Scottish players in the GB team for decades before, so it hasn't suddenly changed.



By that logic, since there are 17 Northerners in the team, play as Northern England. The rest of the country, the sports press, and Rugby Union people, regard the England RL team as a Northern team. By your logic above, once you start to get a consistent number of international class players from the midlands, the south, London, then play as England.

BTW for the London 2012 Olympics, the FA will run the [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympic_games/8072981.stmGreat Britain soccer team supply only English players to GB[/url. It will still be called GB.

I wouldn't like to see them play the Warriors. I don't even like the fact that they're called the NZ Warriors. It affects the Kiwi brand IMO. Same reason why I disagreed with everyone that wanted to call the Crusaders "Wales Crusaders" or whatever. International tours should play international teams and build up representative rugby.


It got 12k because it was the last ever Hull FC game at the Boulevard. They could have played Cottingham Tigers and got the same crowd.
I see you conveniently missed out the 5,612 that packed out Knowsley Road to watch NZ take on the SL Champions...

Shut up you idiotic northern monkey.

Wellsy,
I cant do it like you do where you quote every sentence that suits you and come up with half a reply.

I will say this
Thorman played 11 games for Parramatta 5 years ago.
Mathers was an up and coming superstar in SL and played 4-5 games for the Titans
Tansey was the most bizarre signing of all but did ok for the Newtown Jets with a couple of games in the NRL.

What is the common theme of the players mentioned above?
They were paid pretty well match payments and no Australians had heard of them.

In Contrast...
Some old busted ar*e Aussie or never has been Aussie comes to SL in massive numbers and its the second coming of Christ by the fans.
How many Aussies or Kiwis in SL this year again?

Ellis is on less than he would get in England, Burgess could be anything depending on Crowes involvement.

How much did YOU pay for Berro? in his twilight years 31 now, or Fitz at 33 hardly in their prime are they?

I will let this thread die here from my part Wellsy.
They say Knowlsley Road is closing soon, have you been in all four sides of that ground? if not you will need to go there soon for the last game and move around a bit.

Take care pal.

J

There's a place for both. Tour games can be more competitive, generate more revenue, be logistically easier to plan and run, and be more meaningful to established RL communities than certain test matches, e.g. Big 3 tests against certain emerging nations.