See above, you've just joined a non-exclusive gang.

Good to see you don't believe in the State of Mind campaign, or taking the mental welfare of players into considerations.

Well done you.

Did you sharpen your old 'outrage' pitchfork, or buy a new one?

Quote ="Durham Giant"You should read the Guardian article where Tony Smith talks about platers being influenced by watching MMA and raising coaching issues re Shaun Wane. Potentially this is worse than maybe either of us think'" www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/o ... all-league Significant input from Tony Smith there. He has been the most outspoken, alongside Brown, against Wigan's approach to the sport in recent years but even they have pulled their punches before. A little less so this time: "What I’m really annoyed about is some recent examples in the media, and fly-on-the-wall documentaries, that encourage that sort of thing – portraying it as something that should be done at professional level. Young coaches coming through could be influenced by that and I think it’s disgusting. I don’t think it portrays that individual too well but it’s how it could influence other people in the game and a real bad example of what our sport is about. “I’m a rugby league person. I enjoy the physicality of our sport. But it’s also got to be about self-discipline. When my players have misdemeanours that go across the line, as has undoubtedly happened, they are told that’s not acceptable. It’s no good to me having a player who’s going to jeopardise the foundations of the team."

Quote ="Durham Giant"You should read the Guardian article where Tony Smith talks about platers being influenced by watching MMA and raising coaching issues re Shaun Wane. Potentially this is worse than maybe either of us think'" www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/o ... all-league Significant input from Tony Smith there. He has been the most outspoken, alongside Brown, against Wigan's approach to the sport in recent years but even they have pulled their punches before. A little less so this time: "What I’m really annoyed about is some recent examples in the media, and fly-on-the-wall documentaries, that encourage that sort of thing – portraying it as something that should be done at professional level. Young coaches coming through could be influenced by that and I think it’s disgusting. I don’t think it portrays that individual too well but it’s how it could influence other people in the game and a real bad example of what our sport is about. “I’m a rugby league person. I enjoy the physicality of our sport. But it’s also got to be about self-discipline. When my players have misdemeanours that go across the line, as has undoubtedly happened, they are told that’s not acceptable. It’s no good to me having a player who’s going to jeopardise the foundations of the team."

State of Mind is a very worthwhile cause designed to help people with mental health issues. It isnt there to protect you from the negative consequences of your actions and it is a pretty classless choice to use it as such.

If Ben Flower goes on to suffer from such a mental health issue he should get all the professional help available to him and not one person would begrudge him that. It isnt, and never will be a protection from the consequences of his actions and to attempt to link it someway shows a huge misunderstanding of not only the State of Mind campaign but of mental health in general.

To attempt such deflection and try and portray this as some sort of concerted effort to push some vulnerable victim towards suicide is idiotic, to invoke the sad story of Terry Newton to try and do so somehow manages to limbo under the very low bar you repeatedly set yourself.

Superb post.

So you'd be happier for the RL community to cast Flower aside and abandon him, than to support him through a scenario he probably never, in his wildest dreams, thought would happen; something far bigger than he would normally be exposed to, something he probably isn't equipped to handle, only offering help once things turn sour. Classy.

And by the way, I never mentioned Terry Newton, or suicide, or some fantasy 'concerted effort'. You did, proving you understand the potential. And yet you persist. Perhaps you actually wish depression on Flower like your buddy FlexWheeler?

What I did say was, given recent tragedies, his mental welfare should be taken into consideration right now. Simple as that. If you don't think that's true that says a lot about you.

Nope, your straw man and excuses don't wash. You want a public execution without regard for the potential consequences. All over one punch.

Things havent turned sour. He did something very very wrong and is dealing with the consequences of that.

you know what you were hinting at, i know what you were hinting at. You will probably hint at that again............oh
No, you said lots of other nonsense as well. Its still there, people will read it. The if you don't agree then that means you're the problem gambit sounds like a 1st year women's studies student shouting confused complaints about the patriarchy.
If anyone would like a good example of hypocrisy. That paragraph is a pretty impressive example.

The difference is that most other peoples 'big mistakes' don't include a vicious assault on a prone and unconscious person. I suppose you're one of the PC brigade that believe murderers, rapists and peados should have the same rights as everyone else....

I wonder if those who are so worried about Flowers state of mind, or those that are trying to mitigate or offer reason for/explain his reaction (though they're claiming they're not trying to justify it) would be doing the same if Hohaia had been seriously injured or killed. That might seem like an over reaction or exaggeration, as it would be rare/unlikely for that outcome - however the same could easily be said about the McKinnon tackle from earlier this year.

That said, his well being is still important, but let's not try for a minute and try and make him some sort of victim from this. His actions have reprocusions - his public perception and a negative attitude towards him are one of those. Maybe he'll learn from this and be a little more controlled in the future.

He is? You know Ben? You're a trained psychiatrist? No indicators? Strong evidence of coping mechanisms? Wonderful, glad he's doing well because his father sounded pretty concerned on social media yesterday.


Honestly, even by your standards that's lame.

Enjoy your public execution, you and the other parasites have been shouting for it loudly enough.

great ad hominems.

This is the bit I don't get about the Wigan fans and a few select others on this thread. Just who exactly is demanding a public execution, who is foaming at the mouth as gets brought up every second page? I've suggested a 9 month or 14 game ban. Is that foaming at the mouth? Andrew Voss recommended a year, as did Jonathon Davies. Tony Smith, one of the most composed, professional and respectful coaches in the game has today expressed his concern about Wane's team talk being shown on Sky and it's potential influence on young coaches and players. Is he carrying a pitchfork. Gary Schofield has suggested a 16 game ban, is he?

Brian Carney, a Wigan favourite has today suggested the way Wigan approach games needs to be addressed. One of your own. Yet you and loads of others on the Wigan forum are still mocking the suggestion that Wigan as a club are doing anything wrong. It's a very fine line and Wigan are the wrong side of it. 'Car crash' pictures, 'snap the pole' motivational banners and the techniques it encourages, the 'knock people out, be reckless' teamtalk, the listing of opposition player injuries on walls before games, all behaviours that need to stop.

Maguire and Wane are doing an awful lot of damage to Wigan's history and reputation. Wigan are not the Millwall of Rugby League, a team that needs to resort to underhand tactics and violence to gain an advantage. They are a team with a proud history that has always, up to Maguire, played the game the right way and won trophies by doing it better than other sides. Wigan as a club need to rise above all those behaviours and get back to doing it the right way.

Surely you can see there is something to this? I appreciate it's hard to self-evaluate something you are so committed to, but from Carney's, Offiah's and Leneghan's words today it seems to be hitting home.

It's a shame you didn't show this much concern for players' welfare when you were mouthing off about Zak Hardaker for days on end, whilst he was taking a barrage of abuse across the web.

Translation: you got me, I can't argue.

Bless, 66 pages about an average Welsh prop.

"Bless"?

Nothing has been said about Flower being "average".

No mention of him being Welsh.

Not a word about him being a prop.

So, the 66 pages is not "about" any one of those things. Are you sure you're not on the wrong thread?

As a Widnes fan I would like to thank Ben Flower for his actions on Saturday.

We are no longer the worst thing to happen to the image of Rugby League this season.

Oddly enough I agree with Schofield's recommendations - 8 weeks per punch.

I fully agree that Flower needs supprt and not running out of the game BTW.

Don't forget their wailing over the Macguire incident a few years ago, Some of their lot were wishing a long and painful recovery for him.

Surely it's the second punch that requires the exceptional punishment? Had he not not followed up with the second punch he would likely be on the same charge as Hohaia.

I just hope tonights disciplinary committee consisting of ex Wigan players Sculthorpe and Turley reach a fair and reasonable decision.

I just hope the come to a decision full stop so Cronis can go home and get some sleep.

He's been awake for 72 hours now trying to deflect attention away from Ben Flower.

Only if you can't read.

Anyway it's difficult to sleep with all the wailing and gnashing going on around here.

I can read alright as can everyone else.

Must just be your mental capacity then.

To paraphrase this morning's article in The Times by CI, the sport and disciplinary board are on trial today. I therefore think punishment will be harsh - at least one season but I fear it may be more. Whatever, these are grim days for the sport.

As long as the rfl dont take there lead from the lunatics on these forums then an 8 or 10 game ban, a big fine, and few sessions on an anger management course are more than enough