What kind of nutcase is talking like that to kids playing for fun? How is reckless or knocking out, or even hitting or targeting part of that conversation? Only a psychopath could imagine putting that kind of language and a 10 year old RL game in the same universe.

That's not rugby talk. It's a mental health issue.

This is sad. I might be watching the wrong sport afterall.

I certainly wasn't told that at 10 years old. I don't think I got told anything like that until I got to around u16's/u17's. That's when I left amateur RL.

Spot on.

The Telegraph tries to put the incident into perspective and gives you a chance to vote too: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/ So, the game is at last getting the press coverage it deserves.

The Telegraph tries to put the incident into perspective and gives you a chance to vote too: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/ So, the game is at last getting the press coverage it deserves.

Yes, it's not ideal. But it happened. Nearly 40 years ago, yes, but it did. However, the context was everything. We weren't shell-shocked because whilst the words and phrases used were that of a battlefield, we understood what it was all about. It's context. I'm not advocating that junior rugby be taught the way it was 40 years ago, I'm just saying that those of you who feel completely outraged by what they've heard Shaun Wane say in an edited documentary need to realise that not everything is supposed to be taken literally. It's not in Wane's nor Wigan's interest to have players sent off the pitch.

Just goes to show that the accusations fans have been leveling at Wigan are indeed correct... they HAVE been going out trying to injure the opposition in any way they see fit.

This running story about Wigan's tactics, if true, ought to be backed up by some statistics. Do Wigan get more Red and Yellow cards? Do teams statistically suffer more injuries against Wigan? I genuinely have no idea. If the answer is yes, you may have a point. Some 'anorak' (meant in the nicest possible way, I promise) might be able to dig these numbers out?

Just flashed up on SSN.

Greater Manchester Police to talk to RFL, St Helens Officals & Crown Prosecution Service if appropriate before deciding if any action to be taken against Wigan's Ben Flower

As a Saints fan I'd concur with Hohaia's viewpoint. It's over and done with, Flower will cop an 8 week ban and everyone should move on

No need for anything else to be done or said

Sanity!

It'll be more than 8 weeks in my opinion. Otherwise, the press will be on the RFL's case.

Would any ban include pre season games and The World Club Challenge series?. If Yes then Flower could be back by early April couldn't he?.

While doing my best not to join in the witch hunt it would annoy me a lot if we have pictures of Flower celebrating at say, Wembley next season. If Hock got 7 games for pushing an official then Flower has to be looking at a double figure ban.

I'm not sure they even track stats for number of players injured to be honest. You don't need statistical proof either when you've got clear evidence of both the action (Flower) and the intent (Wane team talk video).

That proves it then, congratulations Poirot.

I'm not sure on that. Hitting someone who is out cold on the floor and not defending himself is unforgiveable. It's not a normal run of the mill disciplinary incident like we debate on here during and after every Sky game. It's worse for the reasons we've been over again and again over the 60 pages.

The ban for Flower needs to set an example. Aggression is fine, a bit of biff is fine (Although they can't actively promote it for obvious reasons). Hitting an unconscious man is beyond the line IMO, it's too much. People mocked me on here when I said it could have killed him, but it's true. You get a medical professional on here and ask them if hitting an unconscious man whilst he's lay on the floor is a safe thing to do and he'd have a lot to say.

Very gracious from Leneghan on Sky tonight. He called it the right decision to give him an F and that it was an exceptional event. I'd agree with that, I've seen nothing like it in 30 years of watching the sport. He also said it wasn't the actions he wants to ever see from a Wigan player or a rugby league player.

I think the RFL should give him an exceptional ban to show the sport is dealing properly with the incident. 9 months/14 games something of that nature, not career ending but enough to show the world it's not being taken lightly and showing Flower and other players both amateur and professional that there is a line than should not be crossed. If anything that may aid Flower avoid potential Police action, which it seems is already happening. One thing pressure from the media does is force governing bodies to be seen to act appropriately and few could argue if Flower was charged over this. It's not a normal sporting incident and several sports would have already banned him for life by now.

Did the interviewer ask him about the video of Wane's old half-time talk that's doing the rounds and has been picked up by the Press? If so, how did he answer?

No matter what the wigans fans say about it meaning nothing being edited yadda yadda it still paints an abhorrent picture of the club when you combine that clip with flowers actions at the weekend.

Have you ever punched a defenceless and prone unconscious man in the face?

Statistics don't necessarily tell the story though do they? I mean does the fact that Bowen went unsuspended for his incredibly late swinging arm head shot in the first match of the season mean that it didn't happen? Do the late cheap shots to the backs of half backs by many Wigan players, but Flower, Dudson and McIllorum especially not count because for some reason it's not deemed a yellow card offence? Is it alright for a third or fourth tackler to go full bore into the ribs or legs of a restrained opponent incapable of bracing or protecting themselves because Wigan players themselves have ensured that the tackle is not yet completed by holding the guy up and technically it's not illegal?

No doubt you'll respond with an argument that all of these things are offences committed by all teams, and to a degree that's correct, but they seem to happen around Wigan an awful lot.

There might not be an obsession at Wigan about setting a world record for how slowly you can peel off a tackle, and there might not be a scorecard kept for how many half backs they can rattle by deliberately hitting them late and from the back, or one where you get extra points for being third man in and doing a bit of damage. These might not be what Wigan are all about and everyone who questions their tactics might be wrong, but maybe, just maybe, everyone else is right and Wigan's approach to the game has gone beyond aggressive defence and into the realm of 'the dark arts' and therefore no-one should really be surprised when one of the hitmen steps outside the very flimsy boundaries set within the club.

Then irony is it's Saints fans defending one of their players performing a forearm smash into another player's jaw, while Wigan fans have all said what Flower did was wrong.

It also wasn't Wane's voice either...it was the guy who used to do Gerry Adams voice on BBC news bulletins in the 80's.

'seem' is the key word there. Statistics might help you learn if reality matches perception. Life can be full of surprises when we put our own strongly held views to an objective test.

You Wigan fans

No.

Had Flower known he was unconscious he wouldn't have done either. ( Which is absolutely no defence to punching a prone player - itself a very poor act which deserves a long ban, but not the first time a punch has ever been thrown at a prone player).

You know that thing you sometimes see on television where all the players look like they're moving really slowly? - slow enough even to make considered decisions before any action? Well, it's not real. Players can't really jump through the air defying gravity like that. It's something magic they do on TV - they can actually slow the action down after the event! Incredible I know, but it all makes more sense when you know what they're doing.