You're welcome to hold that view, provided you agree that it applies to anyone who ever throws a punch in a pile-on on the floor.

Only if you weren't aware of what reckless indifference was.

Which is all wholly irrelevant. Just because something may / may not have happened before doesn't make it right. Also, if he did not know he was hitting someone lying on the ground then he was clearly not in control and therefore a very dangerous individual. What he did was outrageous and the police are having to look into it because of the number of complaints they received. The Australian RL press suggest he should be jailed. The Times today gives examples of sportsmen jailed / given suspended sentences for their action. This seems right up there / worse than those. He'll be lucky to escape a sentence in my opinion.

Grade F charge for Flower [urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5848[/url and a B for Hohaia [urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5847[/url

Its sounds as though Greater Manchester Police are involved are in liason with the Saints Club and RFL.
Saints are holding back to see how the RFL are going to conclude the incident, so I would imagine RFL will have to be careful that it doesn,t go outside the sport into a civil assault matter.

First ever Grade F in Rugby League at this level?

The RFL have clearly defined this above "violent and aggressive striking" and gone into "Other striking offences". They have freed themselves up of the 8 match limit. Flower could be gone for the entire season.

Good news. Good to see them take this seriously. It's impact on the sport's image has been massively negative and it needs to be treated with a stern response, which an F will do. A lot of the NRL-based people commenting on it are suggesting it needs to be a season. Can't see the RFL going that far, but he'd have no room to argue.

The Hohaia charge is irrelevant really. That kind of thing happens all the time and there would have been no cards handed out if it had ended there, had Flower not reacted, just a penalty to Wigan.

I suspect Saints and the RFL will want it to be dealt with outside of the police / courts if they have a choice. So, as has been said I think they will act harshly / in draconian fashion. If it did go to court BF has been quoted as saying there is no defence for his actions or words to that effect. That would make it difficult for him.

It's the CPS he needs to worry about. I've no doubt Hohaia, Saints and the RFL will close ranks and protect the sport. The CPS won't give two hoots about that and will go for him if they believe it warrants it and there is a good chance of prosecution, which there unquestionably is.

Four mentions for Wigan in the final to add to three in the semi final. They need a team sanction as well to go with the first Grade F.

TBF, all the other cases (in the final) have resulted in No Charge.

Never said it "makes it right". Also never said that he didn't know the person was lying on the ground. I just don't believe he had the time to decide he was unconscious and then go and hit him anyway, that's all. Don't confuse a point about how far the hysteria should go or not with an attempt to defend the indefensible. He has no defence. He admits that, and so does pretty much everyone, me included. But that doesn't change my opinion that some of the reaction, *in the context of other things that have happened in the game over the years* amounts to hysteria. I simply do not believe he has hit a man he knew to be unconscious. He may have had reckless disregard for the fact or otherwise, but in that case so have many others who've thrown punches at people on the floor. I'm quite happy to see a long ban in this case and a message from the RFL that *any* punch will result in a ban and an instant sending off, thus getting around the 'state-of-mind' question once and for all. But, where we are now, the bile directed at Flower is OTT. He's done wrong and he'll get punished, but he's not Satan.

What, [url=http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/29593523none?[/url

Press is now on Wane's case: www.express.co.uk/sport/otherspo ... Ben-Flower

Press is now on Wane's case: www.express.co.uk/sport/otherspo ... Ben-Flower

Funny I'm sure BBC radio said they had! But, if they are saying not then so be it.

This sums things up pretty well: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... eague.html

This sums things up pretty well: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... eague.html

"KNOCK PEOPLE OUT!" barks a furious Wigan coach Shaun Wane

"I can't give you any more of a free reign than that. Be reckless because that's what is going to get us the f****** win next week! Is everybody clear on that?"

Depends what he meant by be "reckless" I suppose. At first I assumed he meant physically when "defending". But, could he have meant chucking the ball about when they had it? If the latter, it makes a lot of difference.

Yep. Wane has to shoulder some of the blame. A serious incident has been coming for a while.

To be fair, I'd be equally interested to hear what was in Nathan Brown's team-talk. Saints came out swinging in the open set - Masoe in particular. Indeed, that Wigan were in the field position they were at the time of the Flower incident is down to Saints giving away a penalty for a cheap high shot.

True, but they weren't worked up beyond the point of losing control. Wane has been getting his players to a high emotional state week on week, it's been obvious in the way they play. So in the biggest, most emotional game of the year one of them cracked and crossed the line. I'm not excusing Flower at all, he bears 99% of the blame. But I think a smidge of the blame can be attributed to the way he coaches his players.

Don't get me wrong, I've begrudgingly admired Wigan's aggression in defence. It livens up a game that is sorely missing talking points like big hits/shoulder charges and modern defences that don't allow offloads. But then they step over the line from aggressive defence to things I don't like such as twisting legs in tackles, cannonballs and taking players out off the ball.

It's no surprise to me that one of the younger, less experienced players has stepped well over the line in the most highly charged game of Wigan's highly charged season.

You ever played the game? I was hearing things like this from the age of ten. And NOBODY ever thought the coach was being literal.

Shows what a f@cked up state the game is in if coaches are telling 10 year old kids to be reckless and knock people out. Never mind eh, when it happens it's just an accident and nobody could be sure it would happen and it's not like anybody thought about what they were doing so It's not like they are responsible for it.

We were told to do worse (and EVERYBODY, even at that age, knew it was rugby talk, not literal) in my junior *union* club.