I'm not saying it wasn't daft/reckless/dangerous of Hohaia to run over and 'smash him in the jaw', but saying that Flower merely 'knocked him out of the way' is playing it down a little. You can't see what goes on clearly. He might have just pushed him, or he might have given him a clout in the face. Hohaia certainly didn't like it.

You keep missing the point. Everything up to the second punch would be taken as an unfortunate part of a very physical sport. I'm not a fan of it myself (I haven't gleefully enjoyed 'the biff' since I was a kid) but I understand that sh*t happens in the heat of the moment. If it had ended there, Flower would have been on report or possibly sent off, possibly Hohaia too, and not much else said.

However, the second punch was just dreadful, and has got publicity all over the world for being a disgraceful act of thuggery on a defenceless man.

Maybe he didn't, but if every player involved in a collision while chasing a kick reacted in the way Hohaia did then there would be a hell of a lot more players knocked unconscious.

' Obviously '? Course not, Hohaia ' obviously ' just decided to just launch an attack at a 17 stone prop for nothing

' Obviously ' Flower being a ' mild mannered 17 stone prop ' who wouldnt do anything as violent as punching an unconcious player on the floor

Watch the replay, as Cronus posted earlier " it was a swinging arm above the shoulder, not a head shot "

I don't doubt that, and sort of alluded to that point in my previous post.

I agree with BrisbaneRhino though - everything leading up to that second punch pales into insignificance really.

well if hohaia is as guilty as some people are making out we can look forward to him being charged tomorrow as well then

At least you've learned to turn your caps lock off.

If you're going to keep quoting me, get it right. I said it was a swinging arm over the shoulder, not above the shoulder. Not an attack or punch to the head as you and the rest of the gleefully bleating masses would have it. If you don't know the difference you shouldn't be commenting.

RL is a physically aggressive, high speed, full contact sport. For it to remain that way the aggression needs to be controlled.
Flower crossed a line.
Up to the final act everything was what you get both within and outside the rules. What is outside the rules is accepted and dealt with by the disciplinary system.
Often things boil over in the normal course of a game, but when any player is injured there is usually an instant reaction to protect the welfare of the player.
This is the line that was crossed and it needs to be seen as unacceptable in the game.
I envisage a large fine and a ban of 8-12 games, preferably nearer the top end.

So again, if it was a " swinging arm over the shoulder, " which part of Hohaia 's body was he aiming for? His knees perhaps?

Simple question, simple answer

IT WASNT A COLLISION THICKO, HE HIT HIM

I very much doubt he was 'aiming' for anywhere in particular. Given that Hohaia had deliberately stepped into his path he just wanted him out the way.

By the way, seeing as you're clearly too dense to understand, 'over the shoulder' is NOT the same as 'head'. In the same way you often hear referees call 'over the shoulder' when some impacts look high.

Notice how I capitalized the important part for your benefit, seems to be your favoured method of communication.

But no one is out raged by the first punch! What people have a problem with is him punching Hohaia on the ground while he is clean out. Why are some people finding this so hard to understand and concentrating on the 3 incidents before. They are completely irrelevant.

Exactly. The Wigan fans on here continue to go on about what happened before it.

No idea why as it's totally irrelevant.

They say "I'm not defending Flower", then spend hours trying to deflect the conversation towards what Lance did to deserve it.

Then again, they are probably caught up in the culture their club has deliberately cultivated, so no real surprise there.

It's Wanes Fault

He gives his players free range to go out and knock people out,Be reckless and act like thugs to win games.

Ben Flower was just following orders.

Great to see the time and effort gone in to deflecting from Ben Flower punching an unconscious player in the face. Really really good work from all involved.

It's taken some real effort but we have finally got to the real story of the 2014 grand final 'the year Saints cheated their way to victory using the unacceptable, unforgivable, entirely unforgettable act of a half back NOT leaving a clear path for a prop to get to a kick'

I actually feel like im not a Wigan fan because I seem to be in a minority who thinks this act was cowardly and disgusting. Cant believe how many have tried to defend him and have even said Hohaia deserved what he got. One low life even said they wouldn't have stopped at 2 punches. Why is it so bloody hard for some people to understand how dangerous the hit on the ground was????

Absolutely no way a player would be sent off for that. It was a pushing motion and not a strike and that kind of thing happens all the time. Normally, the player in Flowers position would have had hand bags back, received a penalty and the game would have moved on.

I don't read many people 'defending' Ben Flower's actions. There's a difference between defending his actions (which would be ridiculous) and merely suggesting that some of the reactions are foaming-at-the-mouth over the top. Watching a slow-motion replay is massively misleading here. There are two issues - the first concerns hitting a man on the floor. This is very bad. It's wrong. It deserves a long ban. BUT...let's not pretend it's the first time it's ever happened and is the worst incident ever seen in Rugby League, etc. etc. The second is hitting a man who you believe to be unconscious. That is beyond very bad, and you couldn't really argue with a lifetime ban. HOWEVER, nothing in *real time* leads me to believe that Flower *knew* he was hitting an unconscious man. You may disagree, fine, but don't base your guess about Flower's state of mind and decision making process by watching a slow motion replay.

I did read that the police prefer sporting incidents to be dealt with by disciplinary bodies rather than the legal process being involved. Providing they're satisfied that the disciplinary process is sufficiently robust, the penalties can often be more severe than are likely to be handed out by the courts.

According to the Times the police and CPS have been in discussions with the RFL about the matter which seems rather strange. Suggests a very large book is about to be thrown?

Throw the book at him. Then, when he's unconscious, throw it again.

Ignorance is no excuse or mitigation. If flower is going to hit someone it is his responsibility to hit one who isn't out on the floor. "I hit him before I checked he was conscious" would quite possibly be the worst defence ever offered for anything.

Flower should have tea bagged him.

I agree that it doesn't mitigate the unacceptable action of hitting a prone individual who indeed could have been unconscious and even if not, was not in a good place to defend himself.

However, it is a defence against the even greater charge of "knowing a man was unconscious and making the deliberate decision to hit him anyway" which would appear to be the charge that some people here would make (and incidentally, if true as charged would be the worst thing I at least have ever seen on a rugby field and worthy of a lifetime ban).

It's not really any worse to hit a man you knew was unconscious compared to hitting a man you were recklessly indifferent to whether he was conscious or not.