FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Wigan "owner" irritated |
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| The point is that presently we are top of SL and just gone and strengthen the halves and pack considerably. Issue is not that Wigan have missed out on a potential talent but the potential if the 3 players settle and Wigan start well next season then they will take some stopping. Wigan have more developed talent in the side than virtually and in SL yet its become an issue to bang the club on the head with.
Lets see if such a fuss happened if Warrington, Huddersfield, Wakey, Castelford, Salford, Crusaders, Quins did the same. Its an issue as its Wigan. And the best bit is we can bring 1 more in the club have benefited greatly from the problems at the Storm.
Unless your club has as many own developed talent in your side presently as Wigan so then you really dont have the right to complain about Wigan.
If Its your club your happy to get the 3 players Wigan have just signed but almost all cant generate youngsters like Wigan do and thats your clubs fault. So email them to complain rather than bash Wigan over it.
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| Sometime you have to let players throught your net. You can't screw up your whole wage structure for a kid who's never played first team.
It happened at Saints when Bracek left when wire offered more - we've survived, so will wigan. Besides, don't they have Charnley + 1 other good young centre?
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| Quote: tank123 "The point is that presently we are top of SL and just gone and strengthen the halves and pack considerably. Issue is not that Wigan have missed out on a potential talent but the potential if the 3 players settle and Wigan start well next season then they will take some stopping. Wigan have more developed talent in the side than virtually and in SL yet its become an issue to bang the club on the head with.
Lets see if such a fuss happened if Warrington, Huddersfield, Wakey, Castelford, Salford, Crusaders, Quins did the same. Its an issue as its Wigan. And the best bit is we can bring 1 more in the club have benefited greatly from the problems at the Storm.
Unless your club has as many own developed talent in your side presently as Wigan so then you really dont have the right to complain about Wigan.
If Its your club your happy to get the 3 players Wigan have just signed but almost all cant generate youngsters like Wigan do and thats your clubs fault. So email them to complain rather than bash Wigan over it.'" You're going to have to repeat that, prefferably in English!
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| Quote: cadoo "Allow me to clarify seems as people insist on putting a magnifying glass over the comings and goings at Wigan.
This season only Mark Riddell, Amos Roberts and Cameron Phelps count on the quota. Thomas Leuluai and Harrison Hansen have never counted on any quota because they were here from an early age (Hansen was here from 18, Leuluai at Harlequins whilst 20).
George Carmont, Pat Richards, Feka Paleaasina and Phil Bailey would have counted on the Non-Federation trained limit, but a number of Clubs in the last few months of 2008 used the we do not have enough overseas slots available reason for not renewing certain players contracts and at least one legal case was threatened based upon constraint of a player's ability to earn a living.
To avoid the delays of an expensive potential legal challenge and to be scrupulously fair to players, it was decided by the ESL/RFL -with the unanimous votes of the 12 Super League clubs - to extend Federation Trained status to any players who had committed their future to Super League before the new Regulations were implemented. Since 50% of such current players are 30+ and unlikely to play many further years in Super League, the majority of these exemptions will work their way out quickly.
George Carmont, Pat Richards and Feka Paleaasina therefore become Federation Trained immediately and Phil Bailey at the end of 2009. Unlike most other clubs, Wigan has 3 out of 4 re-categorised Non-Federation players of a young age.
Most of the above has come from Ian Lenagan. So don't doubt the source. I also quote something he posted on our forum a couple of years ago:
Speaks volumes, doesn't it?
To make way for these three signings, Wigan are releasing/released/believed to be letting go of Feka Paleaasina (Castleford + 1 other Yorkshire club), Phil Bailey (retire), Mark Riddell (gone home family reasons) and Cameron Phelps. George Carmont is believed to want to stay for another year and from then we look to see how Darrell Goulding, Josh Charnley, Stefan Marsh and possibly Karl Pryce get on to fill that vacant centre spot.
Wigan prior to these three signings only had 1 player that counted on the overseas quota - Amos Roberts. Now with Ryan Hoffman, 26 (current Australian international with 4 caps to his name, 5 SOO games and 3 City Origin reps to his name), Jeff Lima, 28 (New Zealand international with 6 caps to his name) and Brett Finch, 27 (3 SOO reps to his name) now make up our four quota players for 2011. You are allowed five players on the quota and so Wigan could in theory bring in another overseas player. However, Mike MaGuire has said, in an interview on our official website, that we are looking at what we have here in the vast amount of homegrown talent before looking to overseas. Reaffirming our policy of bringing on our own homegrown talent such as Sam Tomkins (five-year deal last year) and Lee Mossop (five-year deal this year).
Wigan aren't relocating Sam Tomkins. Brett Finch is being brought over to partner Sam Tomkins in the halves with Amos Roberts to slot in at fullback. Thomas Leuluai will move into his International position at hooker in replacement of the departing Mark Riddell.
Wigan have long needed an organising scrum half with a good kicking game. Hence the signing of Paul Deacon as a short-term fill with a coaching job at the end of the year. We have now fulfilled that requirement of an organising scrum half with a formidable kicking game in Brett Finch. Finch is also being brought over to accelerate the development of Joe Mellor, an up and coming scrum half who was MOTM in Wigan's victory of Saints' U20's final last season (who I bet you have never heard of). I dare say that Finch will also pass on a few tips to Sam Tomkins. After all the bloke has played over 250 NRL games with a career spanning 12 years.
I have been at school with Iain Thornley since I was 12. The lad is a fantastic athlete (set records on sports day etc) and is a very talented player. He showed so much potential when he signed for Wigan in the U18's and U20's and did look like becoming the next great Wigan players and the next great England centre. However, his development has stalled greatly, partly due to the fact he decided to go to St.John Rigby College and finish his A-levels, whilst also partly due to the fact he didn't develop the footwork and skills required to beat bigger opponents. Earlier in his playing days - the article mentions he is six-foot four - he could just steam roll over his opponents. Now that he is being matched with players who are at a similar size his development has stalled. Now Sale have been interested in Thornley since he signed for Wigan. They have wined and dined his family etc etc. Wigan did offer him a contract (and a good one too!) but he turned it down. The offer from Sale is staggering for a player who has never played professionally. I believe part of the deal is that his University fees are being paid. As an 18-year-old, who has been to the same school/College as he has, the amount he is being offered is enough to turn me to Union and I detest the sport.
That article is very misleading and is typical of some of the dross and bile the media spout about Wigan RL. Ian Lenagan in his quotes to the press has tried to mention that we are committed to bringing through our homegrown talent and pointed out the long-term deals for Sam Tomkins, Joel Tomkins and Lee Mossop, as well as 11 out of our 17 being either Wigan born or Wigan trained when we played Warrington. All of this has duly been ignored. I think the main worry is that Wigan are becoming that team to be feared again and people can't quite swallow it. I look forward to see our boys thump some of these sides next season, whilst opposition fans can only spew out the same tosh about imports and the salary cap.
Terrific post Cadoo
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| Quote: dany1979 "Terrific post Cadoo
It is, I doubt most of the people strongly voicing there opinions have read it though, it will fall on deaf ears as people have already made their minds up that "Wigan are the scum of rugby league"
The fact that there are more Wigan academy products in SL than any other simply does not register
The fact that most who are shouting loudest on here do not have an Academy that can be mentioned in the same breath as Wigans
The fact is that this thread wouldnt exist if it was Warrington, Hull, Leeds or Saints or any other club for that matter signed these players says it all really.
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| Quote: shambawangy "It is, I doubt most of the people strongly voicing there opinions have read it though, it will fall on deaf ears as people have already made their minds up that "Wigan are the scum of rugby league"
The fact that there are more Wigan academy products in SL than any other simply does not register
The fact that most who are shouting loudest on here do not have an Academy that can be mentioned in the same breath as Wigans
The fact is that this thread wouldnt exist if it was Warrington, Hull, Leeds or Saints or any other club for that matter signed these players says it all really.
Saints are set to announce Michael Shenton and Louie McCarthy Scarsbrook according to rumour. 2 more English internationals coming in.
You don't need to sign NRL players all the time. There are alternatives. Despite the lengths the RFL have gone to reduce the number of NRL players in SL, Wigan will still have a mighty 7. 7!
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| St Helens folk lecturing Wigan on developing a club and players? Classic post-1996 nonsense.
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| regardless of how many of this or that it still sucks that we are seeing a bright young talent in an area that we are weak in at rep level leave the game for the enemy. Finding an English centre with the physical attributes of NRL centres is hard to do it seems. Personally I'd have rather seen Wigan use the Finch money to keep him, it's not like they need Finch.
ps I know all clubs do it, mine being one of teh worse and it sucks all round!
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| The problem with the scenario outlined by Wigan fans is summed up in one word - PERCEPTION. The known facts are that Wigan have announced the signings of 3 overseas players in the same week they lose one of the best centre prospects in the game (according to the media releases etc). Just saying that Wigan 'will' release players doesn't count for squat when you're talking about perception.
Wigan have not - so far as I can tell - officially announced that any current overseas player will be leaving the club at the end of the year (I may have missed Riddell leaving being announced). Maybe 3 will. Or 4. But the story that most people will see and hear is that Wigan are bringing in yet more expensive Aussies, then bleating about not been willing to pay as much money as someone else to retain an 18-year old.
I wouldn't recognize Thornley from Adam, but that's the spin put on all this, and that's why I think quite a few people are disappointed by the direction Wigan APPEAR to be going.
BTW Carmont is an average centre. If he's been keeping any half decent British players out of the side then that's reason enough in my book to cut imports drastically. And before anyone mentions it, Leeds have too many overseas players too.
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| Quote: BrisbaneRhino "The problem with the scenario outlined by Wigan fans is summed up in one word - PERCEPTION. The known facts are that Wigan have announced the signings of 3 overseas players in the same week they lose one of the best centre prospects in the game (according to the media releases etc). Just saying that Wigan 'will' release players doesn't count for squat when you're talking about perception.
Wigan have not - so far as I can tell - officially announced that any current overseas player will be leaving the club at the end of the year (I may have missed Riddell leaving being announced). Maybe 3 will. Or 4. But the story that most people will see and hear is that Wigan are bringing in yet more expensive Aussies, then bleating about not been willing to pay as much money as someone else to retain an 18-year old.
I wouldn't recognize Thornley from Adam, but that's the spin put on all this, and that's why I think quite a few people are disappointed by the direction Wigan APPEAR to be going.
BTW Carmont is an average centre. If he's been keeping any half decent British players out of the side then that's reason enough in my book to cut imports drastically. And before anyone mentions it, Leeds have too many overseas players too.'"
Exactly. Whilst most clubs work their socks off to improve things and try to develop British talent and in turn help the national side and in turn help the sport's profile, there are those clubs so concerned/desperate for success that they have a different mindset. Instead of looking for ways to cut overseas players they look for ways around the system, exemptions and passport dodges. Same with the cap, while most sides look to abide by the rules there are those that look for ways to beat the system, to get away with cheating.
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| Quote: BrisbaneRhino "The problem with the scenario outlined by Wigan fans is summed up in one word - PERCEPTION. The known facts are that Wigan have announced the signings of 3 overseas players in the same week they lose one of the best centre prospects in the game (according to the media releases etc). Just saying that Wigan 'will' release players doesn't count for squat when you're talking about perception.
Wigan have not - so far as I can tell - officially announced that any current overseas player will be leaving the club at the end of the year (I may have missed Riddell leaving being announced). Maybe 3 will. Or 4. But the story that most people will see and hear is that Wigan are bringing in yet more expensive Aussies, then bleating about not been willing to pay as much money as someone else to retain an 18-year old.
I wouldn't recognize Thornley from Adam, but that's the spin put on all this, and that's why I think quite a few people are disappointed by the direction Wigan APPEAR to be going.
BTW Carmont is an average centre. If he's been keeping any half decent British players out of the side then that's reason enough in my book to cut imports drastically. And before anyone mentions it, Leeds have too many overseas players too.'"
It's interesting that most of the people on here who will agree with you are either Aussies or Brits living in Oz.
As outsiders i think we can see the dangers of bringing in too many imports and the benefits of promoting English talent.
British RL cannot afford to lose talented youngsters to Yawnion and Thornley was in line to play for England Academy v Australian Schoolboys later this year, it would've been a great indicator of where he was at.
This is not having a shot at Wigan, it is a problem with the British game in general.
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| Does anyone find this all a bit ironic considering wigan used to steal, rape and pillage other clubs in the 80s and 90s?
I bet thornley was "irritated" at wigan for signing yet more overseas players.
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| Quote: steve "2 stand off's together sounds good and a scrum half at hooker even better...'"
Oh dear Steve. 2 stand offs!!? Finch is a 7 who has been shifted to 6 to play with Cronk, at the time he signed with the storm many asked the question of why they had two organising 7's and no 6.
As for Thornley, my view from watching the 20's is that he's 3rd in line for a centre spot at wigan behind Stef Marsh and now Charnley. We offered Thornley a new contract to see how he develops but RU have offered more money.
Why offer good money to a player that Wigan see as only 3rd choice centre in the 20's, it doesn't make sense.
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| Iam no Wigan fan but i have no problem with the 3 Melbourne players coming in. They are the calibre of Aussie player that should be coming over here with all of them in their prime. Wigan will surely be releasing overseas players (that are of a lesser standard) to make room for the Melbourne lads. Add to this the quality of the English lads they already have (loads of them are early to mid twenties in age) and i think Wigan have done some really good business here. On paper Wigan should be a top 3 team for the next 3 years and probably more.
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| Quote: Saint_Marc "Does anyone find this all a bit ironic considering wigan used to steal, rape and pillage other clubs in the 80s and 90s?
I bet thornley was "irritated" at wigan for signing yet more overseas players.'"
He won't be bothered.
He's been offered a huge money move to Union & being paid more money than Rugby League could offer at this stage in his non-first grade appearance career.
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